Finally committed to casting Boolits!!!

Well, I've lurked on this forum and others and pondered for years about casting my own boolits. I've even purchased good cast bullets and done well with them in my .348, having shot hundreds at good hunting velocities almost matching jacketed loads. I think I've done the homework, now it's time to bite the boolit. :castmine:
I could buy the best and most modern of equipment, but that's not what I want. What I do want, is to cast in the simplest manner possible while still getting the job done. Sort of a "getting back to the basics" type of bullet casting and then hunting with them. Time is not a consideration, and I actually would like to prolong the hobby time.

Initially I want to cast 200+ grain .358 dia. boolits for the .35 Remington in a Marlin rifle that has Micro-Groove rifling. My understanding is that I should produce a casting that exceeds groove dia. by .002 to get the best out of this barrel. I also want to shoot at hunting velocities up to 2200 fps. while maintaining reasonable accuracy. Those are my goals. I'm a hunter primarily, and less of a target-shooter but successful casting would inspire me to do better. I don't expect to be cranking out great numbers, but I do want to make a good boolit, and would be pleased with a 1" grouping at 50 yards.

My thinking at this time is that I will not need to size, and will try to tumble lube only. Gas checks would be installed on a Lee push sizer kit, and I'm expecting I will be honing out the sizer die to maintain the larger dimension dropped by my RCBS 200-358 FNGC mold.

Questions that come to mind at this point are:
How far can I go with Lee Liquid Alox in respect to velocities? Is there a better tumble lube?
Is there a direct correlation between bullet hardness (Lyman #2) and velocity before accuracy falls off?
Am I being realistic in my goals of working with basic equipment, or should I just go ahead and purchase the best? :confused:
Give it to me straight guys, and I do appreciate it.
BrushBuster

Start out with a simple iron pot and ladle. Your choice of a mold is excellent. Get yourself a Lyman or RCBS lubrisizer and sizing dies for it after you have cast your first bullets. A 0.359" or 0.360" die will probably be what you want. LEE liquid alox has a bit of a problem getting up to where you want to go. Read the stickys about making Felix lube (FWFL).

BB;
I cast for my .35 Whelen, the RCBS 200gr rn gc, comes out 214gr with lube and gc from one hole and 220gr from the other hole.
I am waterdropping to BHN 24 or more, using LBT soft blue lube applied by the hot pan soak method.
I am getting 3/4" or so at 50 yds, my available distance, at 2400fps + -.
I am sizing .002" over at .360" with a home made sizer die for the Lee sizer and have no leading.
I have a microgroove .44 mag. and MUST use gas check and waterdropped bullets for any accuracy at speeds above 1400fps.
To get the best results from waterdropped, I use ww's with a coffee measure of chilled bird shot per 8-9 lbs and am getting BHN 24 to 30 after 48 hours ageing, depends on how hard the ww's were I started with.
2200fps is a bit hot for the .35 Rem., Hodgdon shows just over 2100fps with jacketed bullets.
In my experience, IMR4198 and Rel7 give the best results in the Whelen.

BB, I'm going to PM you on the Marlin board. Straight unhardened wheelweights with a little tin can work fine in the .35 Remington Microgroove if you don't push them too fast. Around 2000 fps duplicates factory speeds and the rifles can hold the accuracy over an extended string of shots as long as the bore's not too rough. 2200 fps is easily possible with no pressure problems, but the accuracy falls off sooner, and the extra speed really isn't needed.

We can get you going without breaking the bank.

BrushBuster,
If you've been lurking on this site for any time, you should be aware that messing with these boolits probably could get you committed.
In regards to your questions, I've used cast lubed with Liquid Earwax to full throttle with some cast rifle bullets (.22's ) without problems and had it fail in other calibers. It depends on the alloy, rifling design, bullet design ( relative lube capacity), powder speed, and other factors. The only way to find out is to try it and see it it works for you. Generally Loverin designs seem to work better with it.
For accuracy purposes, generally the harder the bullet is, the better. Especially in MicroGroove barrels. This does not necessarily hold true in low velocity or B.P. loads.
Cast them hard, size them big, launch them with a powder on the slow side for full power to keep peak pressure down and hang on.
You might have to play with that Marlin on the bench bags a bit. Some of them are sensitive to the position and pressure applied to the foreend ( just like Ruger Singleshots).
You do realize that those .35's are fun with cast pistol bullets and don't bounce as much?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BrushBuster

Questions that come to mind at this point are:
1. How far can I go with Lee Liquid Alox in respect to velocities? Is there a better tumble lube?

2. Is there a direct correlation between bullet hardness (Lyman #2) and velocity before accuracy falls off?

3. Am I being realistic in my goals of working with basic equipment, or should I just go ahead and purchase the best? :confused:

BrushBuster

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Brushy,

1. The problem with any lube is getting exactly the same results from it as the next guy. That's why so many exist. The biggest disadvantage that guys find with liquid Alox is that they don't use enough and to apply it in multiple coats. Using your Lee sizers, you can lube, and then size, then lube, and then size, until that fills your gooves and then lube one more time. Then you should be able to get the velocity you want if you can force yourself to use the slowest powder you can to achieve that velocity. If you want to use fast powders to generate the pressure, you will need other lubes probably. It's gun specific.

2. Hardness i more complicated. The simple answer is yes. This is the basic answer. As you gain experience and smooth up your bores you will learn tricks that enable you to use softer and softer lead. But this usually requires better lubes too. So then the answer could change to maybe.

3. I started out using basic equipment because that was all we had. Then I started shooting more and cursed until I could afford more. Some remain happy, some don't. You know more about your personality.

Brush Buster--

Welcome to the hobby/addiction/diversion. I don't do a lot of dipper casting anymore, but NV Curmudgeon does--maybe he will jump on this topic and provide some insights.

I got my start with the dipper, though--using a Coleman stove as heat source and the Lyman 10# pot and dipper to pour 32 caliber boolits for a couple wheelguns of that flavor in the early 1980's. I still have the pot--the dipper--and the stove, but added a furnace and about 3 dozen molds since that time. For the production rate and hobby interest you indicate, I think the pot and dipper method I started with would serve your needs just fine. I think the Lyman or RCBS sizer/luber would make life a lot simpler, esp. if gas checks are going to be part of the program. For the velocity levels you indicate, gas checks would be well-nigh required.

The Coleman® stove and pot work fine, till you get tired of messing with them, then you get to have the fun of deciding whether you want to continue to ladle or to bottom pour and then decide which furnace you want. Like any other addiction it is progressive.

Well, all in all these are pretty encouraging responses. Thanks a lot, and especially for the tips.

Yes, I'm a little naive, especially when it comes to achievable velocities, but I could learn to live with 2000 fps. which sounds a little more realistic. I do know from experience that I don't need the velocity to give me penetration on game. Those boolits could still be going for all I know! Well for now, it seems just a matter of casting a boolit that is accurate, gives me a degree of expansion on impact and doesn't lead up my barrel. Sounds simple! :veryconfu Wish me luck.

I'll check in now and then as I stumble along the path to a great hunting boolit. Like most have said, it's seems a matter of trying to match the proven methods to my rifle and requirements. Just the ticket for these long northern winters!
Bears will probably be out early this Spring. I'll be ready. :grin:

...............Brushbuster, I've never had to load for anything with a Micro-Gruv bore but the word seems to be hard and fat 8). Unless it's a 45-70 and then for some reason fat and soft seems to work really well?

I have a small ring Mauser I barreled to 35 Remington. I just wanted to pass along some information. All other testing and shooting aside, the point is surplus WC846 and 200 gr boolits.

I have the Saeco #356 mould for their 200gr GC slug. As I began using WC846 the more I used the faster the slug went and the tighter the groups got. I finally maxed out the case volumn (R-P) at 41.0grs with a velocity a tad over 2200 fps from a 22" bbl. Accuracy is quarter size at 50 yards (Peep-post irons).

.................Buckshot

Brush Buster, welcome to the clan. I'm also in the "no real Micro-groove experience" section. I can tell you this though, you won't go wrong casting for any 35 cal cartridge. The 35's have to be about perfect for the cast shooter- large enough to handle easily, not so heavy they drain the pot in an instant, friendly in terms of available designs and accuracy. Plus there's scads of stinkin' peestol boolits you can try. Good choice.

As for the Lee Frog Snot I think Bass gave the secret, if there is one. I use a baggie, Zip Lock type, and apply a moderate amount. Then I dump them on a sheet of either plastic or wax paper and let them dry for an hour or so. Then I dust them with moly powder in a cottage cheese tub. You can repeat if you want. I often apply 2-3 coats for my rough bored 8X56R Steyr. Works good so far for me up to around 15-1600 fps. Beyond that, you'll just have to try it. BTW- when you finally start leading the barrel a twist of 4/0 steel or brass wool on an old bore brush will remove the lead ASAP.

Stick with the ladle. Bottom pours are tools of satan.