Not a Glock but I have fired a few hundred cast boolits out of my CZ82 ((mm makarov w/polygonal barrel) and have had no leading to speak of.
I use liquid alox, and a hard cast 95gr bullet.
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Not a Glock but I have fired a few hundred cast boolits out of my CZ82 ((mm makarov w/polygonal barrel) and have had no leading to speak of.
I use liquid alox, and a hard cast 95gr bullet.
Also not a Glock, but my Kahr PM-45 uses the same rifling as a Glock. Kahr does NOT advise against using lead bullets.
I just finished the break-in of the gun as recommended in the manual. I fired 200 rounds, of which 150 were lead (WCWW) 225 RN from a SAECO mould of mine.
I fired all 200 rounds with out cleaning (after the initial cleaning). There is a small amount of leading in the barrel, but nothing to be alarmed about.
Twenty years ago I purchased a new Glock in .40 S&W. I ran 180 gr cast LTC's thru it for a good year. Never had any trouble. Having been a soldier all my adult life I cleaned my glock after every shooting session.
Then I read an article in one of the gun magazines about lead build-up in Glock barrels when firing cast lead bullets. This article mentioned a 10,000 round torture test without cleaning the barrel before they ran into pressure problems due to lead build up in the barrel.
My question at the time was, "Who does not clean their barrel/gun before putting it up?"
It had always been drilled into my head that you clean your weapon as soon as posible after shooting.
I worked in an indoor range for about 15 years and only saw one glock that had a problem. Someone was shooting reloaded ammo and had a jacketed bullet lodge in the barrel and fired another round on top of it. Left a ring and bulge in the barrel that trevented the slide from coming back far enough to pick up the next round in the mag.
I sold cases of lead .40 S&W ammo to Glock shooters during that time span and none of them ever had a problem with accuracy or functioning using lead bullets.
Absolutely right!!!! .....Never let the sun set on a dirty gun!!!!!!Quote:
My question at the time was, "Who does not clean their barrel/gun before putting it up?"
Kent
Hi cowboy. I hope you don't think I was chewing you out (but it looks like you do, since mine was the only post after yours...). All I said was watch out for the guy that runs the Gun Zone, and then went into answering your questions. I certainly don't mind you having an opinion, any more or less than anyone else (including me). As an objective investigator of this issue, I figured you, or others following along, should be aware of that website-author's bias. That's all.Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboy
My experiences do disagree with the anti-lead camp, but I'm open-minded and eager to listen and learn, if it's quality information that is scientific. The info at the Gun Zone is a lot like the Marshal and Sanow "study" of ballistics. A survey of events is actually just a series of anecdotes and without the scientific method sorting out things one variable at a time, it doesn't meet my criteria of proof. If someone can show me absolute proof that lead is bad in poly-rifling, I'd accept it and go with jacketed 100% of the time. Absent that, my personal experience (again not scientifically valid) is that lead is safe...
For the general discussion:
One of the interesting things about lead-bulleted ammo, is that the vast majority of it is handloaded. I know that a significant amount of catastrophic failures in pistols are connected to handloading mistakes or hot-rodding (vs. any issue about what material the bullet is made from). Wonder if there's a correlation here?
We all know that with conventionally-rifled barrels there is variations in quality of finish between rough and smooth barrels. I wonder if there is some variation of "rough-bore" vs. "smooth-bore" in the hammer-forging process of the Glock barrels? (With the rougher ones having serious problems with leading while the smooth ones do not?)
.
i had a glock 17 and i have to say that except for my own ignorance in not paying attention to a squib load the factory barrel was just fine an actualy held up quite well until that squib bulged the barrel i cant say that about any of the replacement barrels execpt for the wilson combat.
one note is that it did seem to not group very well and hitting anything past 25 yards was iffy. but the wilson combat barrel shot much tighter. although i didn't play around with diffent powder or bullets
I own a Glock 30, I shoot cast for it all the time, no problems noted.
I might have shot 1000 all told through it, and very little leading, I use LLA, and shoot as cast from the Lee 200 TL mould.
I have now graduated up to a Ruger Alaskan, but SWMBO uses it now....
I am happy with cast in a Glock, a lot cheaper, and i get the home made feeling.....
I posted this on TFL, edited it to put here after a copy and paste. I'll follow this with another post with the results.
I'm sick and tired of HEARING the hogwash about no lead in factory glock barrels. Also as a kind of SHTF readiness, I just bought a 6 cav lee mold for a 175 grain lead boolit. It's the lee 175 TC. I cast 3-400 Sunday. they're "drying" the lee liquid allox right now. later today, I loaded some using WW 231. I'm going to keep a critical eye on lead build-up inside the barrel. My glock M-22 is at least 10 Y.O. and has thousands of jacketed and plated bullets through it.
I did a hardness test using the lee tester. 12.5 BHN! That's fine for this application. If they lead too much, I'll cast them from a harder alloy.
It's all about doing hard cast boolits for glocks. AND most importantly keeping an eye open for leading as it occurs, or doesn't occur. Then being darn careful with regular cleaning.
They will be shot unsized,(they're running .402-.403). IF they can be loaded that big and still pass my cartridge case gauge. Otherwise, I'll get a lee sizer for .400.
Just got home from the range! It was raining, windy and 36 degrees, so my shooting was INDOORS, BRRRR! My club has a 10 position 50 ft HEATED indoor range. I sat down, using a rest to shoot from.
Now for the results; First load was 4.8 WW-231. I thoroughly cleaned the barrel before leaving home. I shot 5, then took a look down the tube. Normal fouling. The group was only okay, nothing to crow about! Couldn't keep them all in the black of a 50 ft. NRA slow fire target. Next came the 17 I had left of the 4.8 charge, they went into a group of around 5". My glock will keep all shots inside the 3" bull with plated or jacketed ammo.
Then came the 5.0 load, it went into a 2.5 inch group,(5 shots). Fired shells showed no sign of pressure. Another look down the BBL. showed no signs of lead build up, EXCEPT a little just in front of the chamber.
Now for the 5.4 load, with 2 flyers THAT WERE KEYHOLED, over 7"! Now the leading had progressed half way down the barrel.
Next the top load of 5.7. Over 8" with two flyers were classic, complete, keyholes! Now the barrel is leaded all the way to the muzzle. Not heavily leaded, but a light smear all along the thrust side of the rifling band. Also, one empty shell showed a slight guppy belly just ahead of the extractor groove. I now have 5 shells to pull apart.
What did I learn? 1, the alloy I used is way too soft. A link on this thread was to another thread where someone said the BHN should be around 18 for lead in glocks. Okay I can do that! 2, ww-231 is too fast for this lead boolit. I want case life from my reloads, the top load showed high pressure, I would have to retire too many cases. 3, if I would have continued to shoot all but the first 2 loads, I would have enough lead build up to cause higher pressures. All of this can and will be solved with a harder,(18 BHN), alloy.
I have used three glocks with lead. A 21 that will shoot any amount of 452 boolits of most any hardness without leading. The two 22s I used leaded so badly using wcww at .401 that in less than one magazine full the boolits were hitting sideways at 10 yds. I don't know why and as the 22s weren't mine I didn't bother to find out.
I mixed up a harder alloy. I thought it would be hard enough. Uh-huh, add this one to the best laid plans of mice and men! The original alloy consists of lino 3# to 17# of nearly pure lead,(it contains perhaps 1% tin). The new mix was 14# lino to 4# of the nearly pure counterweight metal. Cast last night, this morning they test at 14.5 BHN.
I gave them a bath in LLA, then tried something new. I put them in the oven @ 170 degrees. An hour later they were dry! Well, as dry as LLA ever gets!:roll: I'll load some more at the same levels a the last test groups.
I'm going to try to water drop some of those to see if I can up the BHN some.?
I loaded some last night to try today at the 5.0 ww-231 level, and a few at 5.7. The 5.0 load grouped better than the first bunch. No leading at all! Then I shot the 5.7 loads, this time no keyholes but the group was 3x the 5.0 group. Also the hotter load shows some leading, same as before.
Okay, I have a decent load for plinking. Once the weather turns to spring, the range road opens up, I'll go do a torture test. I'm going to load 2 -3 hundred of these, shoot 50 at a time while checking the barrel for lead build up. Won't be for a couple of weeks, but I'll report back on this thread when it's done.
Oh, I water dropped some more I cast last night. Cold as the water comes from the tap. NO DIFFERENCE! Compared to air cooled, same alloy. Do I need to add some shot to get some arsenic in the alloy?
If you let those bullets age they'll get much much harder. You're shooting them too soon. I know how that is am I'm anxious to shoot right away too.
Joe
Your sarcasm is noted, since you didn't have a smiley to make me think you were saying that with humor. If you don't want/like a glock, then don't buy one!:mad:Quote:
If you cant use real bullets in a Glock, can you use it as a water pistol? Should work, all the water pistols I ever saw were plastic.
Joe, I know they will age harden. In fact I'm counting on it. Since it will be a couple weeks before I can torture test these,(muddy season closes the range road until it dries), they will have a chance to harden. I'll load a couple hundred, then do a box, then check the barrel.Quote:
If you let those bullets age they'll get much much harder. You're shooting them too soon. I know how that is am I'm anxious to shoot right away too.
I have generally not fired lead bullets in my Glocks. However, looks like we are in a survival mode so some some experiments were done. My G21 ran well on the 200 gr. lead SWC's-Lyman 452460. There was some leading. Glocks, HK's Sig's and a S&W were in this mini test. The S&W 4566 was to worst. The Glock 30 would not run with these loads-FTF. The HK's and Sig did best. The G21 cleaned up quickly and appears to be usable with lead bullets as a last resort. Accuracy was much better with jacket bullets in the G21. Basically, none of these guns were designed with lead bullets in mind. I have been told on good authority that shooting lead bullets in a Glock is risky business. The day may be coming when we may have no other option.
Maybe 5 had ayears ago glock 23 in 40 cal. back of case blow out . Blew the Mag out of the gun and to pieces. broke the extractor. Had powder burns on my hands Scared the living Hoo out of me... Very lucky I did not get hurt. :-o
I've had my Glock 20 for 20+ years and have put virtually thousands of rounds of lead through the stock barrel without a single problem, including leading. Same holds true for my Glock 22 which I've had for over 15 years and have shot virtually only lead through during that time. I clean after every 200 rounds or at the end of each session, whichever comes first, my boolits are cast with an alloy of my own making that is very close to Taracorp's Magnum Alloy (2/6/92) and tests at about 14 BHN, sized .401 and lubed with the NRA formula 50/50 which I get from White Label Lubes.
Having said this, I recently purchased Lone Wolf barrels for both of my Glocks, expecting that the tighter cut chambers and broach cut barrels would make a noticeable difference in accuracy. While these new barrels are definitely tighter in chamber dimensions and do a much better job of supporting the full cartridge case, I really haven't noticed any increased accuracy but that may just be due to my 71 y.o. eyesight causing the problem.
Anyway, my conclusion is that the problems that some Glock owners have had in using lead in their factory barrels may well be due to lack of a proper cleaning schedule and/or 'pushing the envelope' when it comes to loads. With extremely high pressure loads you will indeed 'Glock' your brass which will eventually weaken that portion of the case, especially if successive reloads continue to put undue stress on the 'Glocked' case areas. If this practice is continued long enough, it's only asking for a 'Kaboom' to happen!!
sleeper1428
Jeff,Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff.L
How did you get powder burns on both hands? Did the Glock's grip crack?
Joe
[QUOTE=snuffy;530565]Your sarcasm is noted, since you didn't have a smiley to make me think you were saying that with humor. If you don't want/like a glock, then don't buy one!:mad:
Sound advise that ill surely take :)
JoeQuote:
Originally Posted by StarMetal
had powder blow out around trigger gard and mag relese button..
Grips did not crack ... Jeff