A Basic Question.

After several years of just loading any old boolits for my 30 cals I've come to the stage where I want to refine my system and just end up using one boolit.
Here's an image of a handful that won't make the cut though it's a close thing between the one in the centre and the one I've chosen.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/images/attach/jpg.gif

I'm loading for 30/30 and 308 and have finally decided to use the Lee 309/170 gc fn in both rifles, basically it comes out at 173 grns with a hornady gc on and smothered in mule snot and shoots regularly into 3 - 4" at 100 yards with the 30/30 and amazingly into 1 - 1.5 groups with my 308 BLR.
The boolitts shown in the image are nearly as good in the 308 but the 167 grn pb with a pb gc on shoots 2 -3" in the 30/30, the others not so well and the 120 is crap.
All those boolits in the image are store bought but the lee will be cast by myself.
The query that I have concerns the 308 with the COAL at 2.8", the cast section in front of the crimp groove is engaging the rifling by about 0.020", the only drawback is this makes the lever stiff over the last few degrees of action as the bolt goes into battery. This doesn't appear to be a huge issue but the load I'm using with about 18.5 grns of 2400 is quite mild, gives about 1850 fps at the muzzle. The same bullet in the 30/30 does not get engraved with the rifling at COAL of 2.55 and I've been loading it with RL7 at around 2100 when it's been knocking out those best for me out of the 30/30 groups. The reason I've been loading the rounds at max for caliber COAL is to minimise the pressure.

Is this issue of the boolit engaging the rifling bad, good or indifferent? I ask as I have several hundred of these boolits remaining and want to use them up. BTW the 308 does the same thing with the 180 and just nudges the rifling with the 177.

I too use the Lee 309/170 gc fn, In not only 30-30 and 308, but also in the 300 Savage, and the 30-06..
I like it alot. And consider it an Advantage if it jams into the Rifling!! the other thing I have done is try...Try, to get the Nose a very close fit in the bore!! I use two different lead "recipe's" for 30-30, vs 30-06, just for the Nose Diameter...Just happens the 30-30 Alloy, creates a nice fit in the 300 Savage.. The 308 does Not get the attention the others do!!!
I may Not be doing it "Correctly" but...Works for Me!!

I'd been using Barnes 130 grn TTSX, which barnes recommend to have a jump into the rifling up to 0.050" IIRC. Hence my caution, it seems to work for me, maybe I ought to try engaging the rifling in the 30/30 but I'm very conscious of the lower pressure limit between it and the 308 and don't want to bugger the old winchester.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by braddock

I'd been using Barnes 130 grn TTSX, which barnes recommend to have a jump into the rifling up to 0.050" IIRC. Hence my caution, it seems to work for me, maybe I ought to try engaging the rifling in the 30/30 but I'm very conscious of the lower pressure limit between it and the 308 and don't want to bugger the old winchester.

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Huge Difference between Cast, Jacketed, and Monolithic Solids.. Pressure goes Up with each change

Best load in the 45-70 is jammed into the rifling, and with no crimp, it seats back into the case. Also the case is fired and resized with a spare die locking ring under the FL die as the taper of the case makes a perfect neck size only. I seat the bullet with my fingers into the case just past the top grease groove and leaving the two bands that make the crimping groove exposed. In a single-shot Ruger #3 the bullet hits the rifling and slides back into the case. This (and a few other secrets) produces one hole groups @ 100yds. Not magazine friendly. But if you single load and the neck is sized to slip fit the bullet, the increased
neck diameter of the cartridge will remove some of the sloppiness (clearance) in the chamber neck area.
Lead bullets offer much less bullet engraving friction than all the other bullet materials. There is probably some increase in pressure when jammed, but not a factor at the internal ballistics we casters live at.

KB

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I like my cast boolits slightly heavy ... use the Lee C309-170-F in 30-30 and since I have it ... load it in my 30-06 and in my 7.5 Swiss K11 Schmidt-Ruben - 1911 Carbine (not the K31)...
and that boolit does well in all three rifles ... I do use the gas check .
Gary

Let the barrel and chamber tell you what works for the bullet you select.

You could always consider a reamer so the boolits fit without force. I’ve always heard that a few thousandths of boolit jump was good.

As stated engraving is fine but how hard does the lever close. Could to much force damage the lever system. I like my levers to run free. Just something to consider.

It's just enough to notice, if that makes sense.
Greg that's taking a sledgehammer to crack a nut, it's far easier just to seat the boolits 20 or 30 thou deeper in the case.

I will not seat bullets into the rifling for hunting loads.
It’s a bit embarrassing at best to unload the cartridge from the chamber and the bullet stays, the powder dumps into the innards, and the primed case looks at you.
The C309170 F Lee is a great bullet.


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What Texas said, I have no idea if it also works with cast but my 308 win with jacketed shot the best groups with some jam but when it was time to the empty chamber and pack up and go home it was stuck and i didn't want to make a mess. So do you make a mess, carry it with a round in the chamber. or shoot it and waste a round or piss off the neighbors? I had one stick at the range and when we went cold I had to ask the RO if I could unload by shooting before anybody went down range. He allowed it but what other choice did we have? All that to say I have decided it isn't safe.

These boolits don't stick in the rifling, as I mentioned the jamb is about 0.020" the engraving marks are clear on the boolit albeit tapered and light.
FWIW I'm seating them at 2.780" on this run of reloads so it should be a thing of the past, if they group as good.
I remembered that the reason I loaded them out that far, as well as to minimise pressure, was to keep the gas check inside the case neck as they are PB boolits using sage outdoors PB alloy gas checks which came off pretty easy. What I've taken to doing is to double gascheck them, second gas check really "bites" home and they need a pliers to get them off so I should be sorted.
I also put a small drop of medium cyanoacrylate superglue in the centre of each gas check cup so maybe that helps in the retention.
I've got man flu this weekend so won't be going to the range until a few weeks time and I'll probably revert then with the results if I manage to remember.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Texas by God

I will not seat bullets into the rifling for hunting loads.
It’s a bit embarrassing at best to unload the cartridge from the chamber and the bullet stays, the powder dumps into the innards, and the primed case looks at you.
The C309170 F Lee is a great bullet.


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Same here, I had that happen too many times.
If your rifle likes a bullet started into the lands, try using a softer alloy instead, and see if that doesn't give the accuracy you want.

All of my .30 cal bullets are loaded too jam into the lands. But, I don't hunt and my range is 'uncontrolled' so removing a stuck round is a simple process.

FWIW some of my most accurate loads are with bore riders that are an interference fit in the bore as well as having the first drive band engaged. Some of the very accurate bench rest guns use breech seated bullets.

A range acquaintance had an article published in the CBA magazine years ago about cast bullets in the 1903 family of rifles in original military configuration. All had excellent to new condition bores. His main bullet was a commercial clone of the Lyman 311041 w/gas check, a bullet I have had very good results with in 30/30, .308 Win., and 30/06. The most surprising thing to me was that he just seated them to the crimping groove and applied a slight crimp; he didn't experiment with seating depth relative to rifling and got surprisingly good results.