458 Win mag and cast boolits

I loaded my Win 70 with 420 grain gc bullets, I got very good accuracy and no leading at 1940 fps out of the 22 inch tube.
I bought the rifle from the original buyer who picked it up in the late 80's or early 90's and never fired it because of a work injury.
The only bullets fired out of it so far have been cast and only 5 of the 350 Hornady RN jacketed bullets, I know that's a sin, but I needed the brass from the rounds to build my cast loads with.
No more of those pesky j bullets will be fired from this rifle as long as the heavy cast continue to shoot.
My 420 grain cast 45-70 loads shot 1630 fps out of my guide gun, that 300 fps faster with the 458 is a real game changer.
Bear season opens in April here, I will be out looking for some spring bear for pepperoni.

I tried a couple of bullets from my 45/70's in my Ruger #1 Tropical rifle in 458 WM. The one that I settled on was the venerable 462-560 "Thors Hammer". It's a 550-grain behemoth that measures 462" out of my mold and gives excellent accuracy when boosted by IMR 3031 powder.

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Originally Posted by stubshaft

I tried a couple of bullets from my 45/70's in my Ruger #1 Tropical rifle in 458 WM. The one that I settled on was the venerable 462-560 "Thors Hammer". It's a 550-grain behemoth that measures 462" out of my mold and gives excellent accuracy when boosted by IMR 3031 powder.

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What did you achieve for velocity with those big slugs?

Back when I was in college and working in a machine shop, one of the older guys working there was a hobby gunsmith, and one of several mentors that got me into hobby gunsmithing. He owned a small ranch back in the woods and had his own little workshop out by his own personal shooting range near one corner of the ranch. I would go out and visit him at least once a month, sometimes with a shoe box full of revolver parts that seemed simple enough when I took them apart, but now required more than my mental faculties to reassemble, and other times just to target shoot and chat.

This friend of mine had an extensive and impressive firearms collection, but usually kept them in his safe at the ranch house. There would be whatever he was working on at the time out in his shop. There was one rifle however that was always out at the shop: this was an engraved Remington model 700 in 458 Winchester magnum. It was a beautiful rifle with excellent wood and fine craftsmanship. I asked him about it once, sarcastically asking if he was expecting any rhinoceros to be ambling across his ranch? He explained to me "No, that rifle is for idjits." I replied "Don't you think that rifles a bit much for shooting morons?" To which he said "OH, I don't shoot them - I let them shoot it!"

He then explained to me that when any of the local characters that would come by his little range would be prone to bragging about what an outstanding shot they were, and what a gift to humanity they were in general, when there was ample evidence to the opposite, he would calmly wait until they would notice the really nice rifle that he had by the end of his work bench. They would Oooo and Awww at it like they'd found a precious stone. He would offer to let them handle it. Now the trap was sprung! As they were caressing that magnificent beast he would calmly ask them "Would you like to shoot it?" Of course they would like to shoot it!!!

My buddy and his latest victim would saunter out to the range with the rifle and a single round of 500 grain fmj loaded with (what seemed to me) a compressed charge of nitroglycerine. An oak tree stump 80 yards away provided a decent target, and our hero would shoulder the gun and light it off. This was usually followed by comments like "Hey Doug, why are you laying on the ground like that?" My buddy was a gentle enough fellow, but apparently had a quiet little mean streak for guys that act like obnoxious jerks.

Now, after having the intentions and consequences of this particular firearm explained to me, (against all better judgement) ask if I could shoot it? I was informed that this rifle packed a powerful punch, and it was in my best interests not to. But then I explained "How often does the average guy get the chance to shoot a for real elephant gun?" My friend said, "OK, but you know what you're getting into." We took the rifle and one round out to the range. There was a creek near by, and a hillside behind it to make a safe backstop. Instead of the more traditional tree stump I chose a "reactive target" in the form of a rock about the size of a pumpkin out in the creek bed. At the shot the rock disintegration onto a shower of aquarium gravel and the bullet plowed a trench for five feet behind where it used to be.

The recoil from that was a stunning hammer blow. It left a bruise. It was at this point that I decided that I would never want to hunt elephants.

I used NOE's 460-393 RN (copy of the Lyman 457-393) for some 458WM ammo for my friend's Rifle. They weigh 383gr with GC.
I loaded them with a dose of 3031 for a velocity of 1950fps.

I have always thought the .458WM would make a good BPCR. Kinda like a rimless .45-90 or -110.

I have loaded my 458 WM with the LEE 405 FN up to 1,600 or so (no gas check) and the LEE Pointed RN 500 gr to about the same velocity. I have yet to try the LEE 450 gr with gas check at a higher velocity.

I bought mine (Rem M700 Custom Shop) used it looked to be have never been fired. I got it online from a gunsmith who acquired it from a customer that could not pay his bill for some work he did on another gun.

I was getting 1900+ over a slightly compressed charge of 3031. I was toying with the idea of opening up the chamber to a 458 Lott, but figured that 1900 fps. with that boolit would kill ANYTHING I cared to shoot at...and HAS!

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Originally Posted by stubshaft

I was getting 1900+ over a slightly compressed charge of 3031. I was toying with the idea of opening up the chamber to a 458 Lott, but figured that 1900 fps. with that boolit would kill ANYTHING I cared to shoot at...and HAS!

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1900 fps with that weight of lead is like dropping a Volkswagen on a bear from a 100 yds up.

May want to look at the Lyman 457122 mold. It's an old school hollow point.

I liked the boolit so much that I bought a very similar profile G/C mold from Accurate that was NOT hollowpoint. Liked the Lyman profile, hated the single cavity, hollow point sloooooow casting pace.

For punching paper and ringing dingers, the HP is probably overkill. Especially when one of my favorite loads using the 457122 in the 45-70 is 4.4 grains of Clays.

I have a Ruger #1 in 458WM that I use only for cast. Most of my loads are in the 1700 to 1900 range with 350g to 450g bullets. It still packs a good punch even with these loads, but I always keep a few 500g max loads on hand just in case one of the know it alls shows and talks about how he is not bothered by recoil. They usually only shoot one.

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Originally Posted by pworley1

I have a Ruger #1 in 458WM that I use only for cast. Most of my loads are in the 1700 to 1900 range with 350g to 450g bullets. It still packs a good punch even with these loads, but I always keep a few 500g max loads on hand just in case one of the know it alls shows and talks about how he is not bothered by recoil. They usually only shoot one.

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The full house 500 grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claw out out of my M70 usually stops the bragging in one shot.:guntootsmiley:

I've loaded the Lee C457-500-FN to 2150 fps out of a 22" M70 458. Also, to 2050 out of my Siamese M98 45-400-70... 45-70 throated so that bullet in cartridge fits the magazine. Both let you know you've pulled a trigger, but the other end effect can be awesome.....

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Originally Posted by 405grain

Back when I was in college and working in a machine shop, one of the older guys working there was a hobby gunsmith, and one of several mentors that got me into hobby gunsmithing. He owned a small ranch back in the woods and had his own little workshop out by his own personal shooting range near one corner of the ranch. I would go out and visit him at least once a month, sometimes with a shoe box full of revolver parts that seemed simple enough when I took them apart, but now required more than my mental faculties to reassemble, and other times just to target shoot and chat.

This friend of mine had an extensive and impressive firearms collection, but usually kept them in his safe at the ranch house. There would be whatever he was working on at the time out in his shop. There was one rifle however that was always out at the shop: this was an engraved Remington model 700 in 458 Winchester magnum. It was a beautiful rifle with excellent wood and fine craftsmanship. I asked him about it once, sarcastically asking if he was expecting any rhinoceros to be ambling across his ranch? He explained to me "No, that rifle is for idjits." I replied "Don't you think that rifles a bit much for shooting morons?" To which he said "OH, I don't shoot them - I let them shoot it!"

He then explained to me that when any of the local characters that would come by his little range would be prone to bragging about what an outstanding shot they were, and what a gift to humanity they were in general, when there was ample evidence to the opposite, he would calmly wait until they would notice the really nice rifle that he had by the end of his work bench. They would Oooo and Awww at it like they'd found a precious stone. He would offer to let them handle it. Now the trap was sprung! As they were caressing that magnificent beast he would calmly ask them "Would you like to shoot it?" Of course they would like to shoot it!!!

My buddy and his latest victim would saunter out to the range with the rifle and a single round of 500 grain fmj loaded with (what seemed to me) a compressed charge of nitroglycerine. An oak tree stump 80 yards away provided a decent target, and our hero would shoulder the gun and light it off. This was usually followed by comments like "Hey Doug, why are you laying on the ground like that?" My buddy was a gentle enough fellow, but apparently had a quiet little mean streak for guys that act like obnoxious jerks.

Now, after having the intentions and consequences of this particular firearm explained to me, (against all better judgement) ask if I could shoot it? I was informed that this rifle packed a powerful punch, and it was in my best interests not to. But then I explained "How often does the average guy get the chance to shoot a for real elephant gun?" My friend said, "OK, but you know what you're getting into." We took the rifle and one round out to the range. There was a creek near by, and a hillside behind it to make a safe backstop. Instead of the more traditional tree stump I chose a "reactive target" in the form of a rock about the size of a pumpkin out in the creek bed. At the shot the rock disintegration onto a shower of aquarium gravel and the bullet plowed a trench for five feet behind where it used to be.

The recoil from that was a stunning hammer blow. It left a bruise. It was at this point that I decided that I would never want to hunt elephants.

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I built a 458lott awhile back, 10.5#, express sight. My gunsmith wouldnt shoot it to sight it on so i had to. After 12rds from a standing bench, i ended up selling it & built an 11# 404jeffery. I put 300rds thru it, mostly benched, sighting in the 1x4 scope & load dev. Its been to Africa twice & maybe 500rds downrange, it kicks, but manageable. A 458wm is the perfect cast bullet rifle.

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Originally Posted by 405grain

Back when I was in college and working in a machine shop, . . .

The recoil from that was a stunning hammer blow. It left a bruise. It was at this point that I decided that I would never want to hunt elephants.

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I don't mean to highjack the threat with my old stove stories, but 405grain's account brings back some memories of my youth, which I'd like to relate.

My Uncle, a brother much older than my Mom, was a a mighty hunter, and this is no exaggeration (unlike what's often encountered online.) A quick summary might be that his Alaskan grizzly bear and Polar Bear were both Boone and Crocket (both squared a bit over 9 feet), and that his guide was so confident of my Uncle's hunting and shooting proficiency that he would set his backup rifle aside and film the climaxes of the hunts, shooting over my Uncle's shoulder as he shot. I say this having seen both of these films a number of times.

My Uncle was not a gun person -- he was a hunting person. A gun to him was little more than a tool to get the job done. Until his Alaskan junkets, he had used a 30-06 742 Remington for his Colorado and Wyoming elk and moose hunts. It was on one such trip that his guide demonstrated the flat shooting of a 300 Weatherby. This would have been in the early 60s. My Uncle decided that a new Mark V would be just the ticket for his upcoming Alaskan adventures.

Once he got the new Weatherby, he fiddled with it and took it to a gunsmith to have it glass bedded by someone with enough craftsmanship to not ruin the finish of his new prize tool. He set it up with one of those Bausch and Lomb turretless scopes (he would use nothing less than Bausch and Lomb) and then began terrorizing his friends with the Weatherby.

My Uncle was very much the hunting raconteur, with an enviable ability to tell his hunting stories in a spell-binding and edge-of-the-seat way. He used these skills to describe how he humiliated the lesser folks who tried to shoot his mighty Weatherby 300. I remember one, where he described how the Bausch and Lomb "ringed" one of his friend's brow during one of these shooting sessions, but there were a number of such tales.

My Uncle regaled my Dad with a number of these stories and then invited him to try Roy's finest for himself. My Dad was not a talker and never a braggart, but he was quite the man in the truest sense of the word. He evidently had never told his brother-in-law (my Uncle) that he was in the US Army for a year before WW2, or that he had excelled in pistol and rifle shooting on the 7th Infantry's regimental target team. So, when the mighty 300 Hammer of Thor was leveled over the rest and Dad popped off a number of rounds on target just as easily as your Sunday Summer Stroll, there was no material for my Uncle to crow about at all -- my Texan Uncle had drilled a dry one.

But, there was another part of this episode. Looking back, I don't see how I could have been more that 12 years old at this time. When the preparations were made to go shooting, my Uncle asked if I would like to shoot something in his gun cabinet. Oh, yes, there certainly was!

My Uncle had a very old Browning A5 -- he must have bought it in the 30s. His older brother, a big upland and waterfowl hunter himself, and told me how the A5's barrel was too long for my Uncle, and how he'd taken it to the gunsmith and had 4" cut off the muzzle. Then, as his brother recounted, my Uncle commenced to slay every bird he encountered. One of these old hunting stories included the detail that my Uncle once shot the A5 so much that his shoulder was too sore to shoot anymore, and so he switched to the left side with undiminished results -- all without a choke, his brother told me, amazed.

All this is to say that, after all those years of hearing about the mighty A5, I had an eye on giving that magic gun a try for myself. "What do you want to shoot with it?" my Uncle asked. I'd heard so many of those stories in school about shooting deer slugs (and I was still to young and too gullible to recognize youthful male BS) that I immediately pointed to a deer slug box in the back of the gun case. "I want to shoot deer slugs," I replied to my Uncle.

Not a word was said as my Uncle collected the A5 and the box of deer slugs to be taken into the woods along with the Weatherby. When Dad had sadly disappointed my Uncle's macho setup attempt, it was my turn "up to bat." I leveled the A5 (still young, I was large for my age and could do this passably well) and I touched off that A5 at the target.

Good grief! The thing was like holding a hay baler! "Clackity-clack" John Browning's steam punk shotgun sang, as smoke seemingly poured from the ejection port. I had that intense burning feeling in my face one gets when one's just been popped in the puss, but I didn't drop the gun.

I don't know what things looked like to my Dad or Uncle, but I was gently relieved of the A5 and we headed home. Not a word was spoken by my Uncle about Dad's shooting the Weatherby, nor did Dad or my Uncle say anything about my deer slug episode.

Anyway, that's my addition to the "shooting the big boomers" collection.

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Originally Posted by Piłsudski

I don't mean to highjack the threat with my old stove stories, but 405grain's account brings back some memories of my youth, which I'd like to relate.

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Worth every line. And I may have hijacked a thread or two with a long winded yarn. Luckily no one has complained.

Yet.;)

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Originally Posted by 303carbine

I loaded my Win 70 with 420 grain gc bullets, I got very good accuracy and no leading at 1940 fps out of the 22 inch tube.
I bought the rifle from the original buyer who picked it up in the late 80's or early 90's and never fired it because of a work injury.
The only bullets fired out of it so far have been cast and only 5 of the 350 Hornady RN jacketed bullets, I know that's a sin, but I needed the brass from the rounds to build my cast loads with.
No more of those pesky j bullets will be fired from this rifle as long as the heavy cast continue to shoot.
My 420 grain cast 45-70 loads shot 1630 fps out of my guide gun, that 300 fps faster with the 458 is a real game changer.
Bear season opens in April here, I will be out looking for some spring bear for pepperoni.

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I also found that pushing the 420's too hard made the groups open up, I backed the load down 1 grain from my original load and the group actually tightened up.
Perhaps one more half grain down will get them all in the same hole, gotta wait for the damn rain to stop to try it out again.