357-158/ proper alloy mix

My 357 H@R is so accurate and easy in tight spots I must use it in a thicket I hunt sometimes. I have the RD195 boolits and they are fine but the handgun hasn't agreed to them yet.The load I like right now is rcbs162 boolet, 13 gr of 2400 and all is well in both handgun and rifle. Now, when looking for info for hunting performance with deer everyone is all over the place with the 158 boolets concerning alloy mix to those who say it is not a hunting boolit untill 170 grains for deer. I am going to do some wet book trials but is there a common mix that can be agreed upon with a 158 gr boolit to work from 10 yards to 100 yards at these modest velocities?

1:1, wheel weight to lead
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JMHO, but anyone saying a 158gr .357 isn't a deer killer is talking out of their sitter. Using the 358-158RF from a Lee mold cast of 20/1 lead-tin alloy over 7.1gr Herco, I've put 11 deer in the freezer, shots from 9ft to 81 yards. None of those ran more than 45 yards after the shot.
This load chrono's juts north of 100fps from my 4" Security Six, no barn burner but it's accurate. My thoughts....use an alloy no harder than needed to keep from leading at load speed with all the meplat you can get short of a wadcutter (they don't fly well past 50yds) and you'll get plenty of deer. YMMV tho.....

common mix will be ww's and soft lead of some sort.
I use 3 clip on to 1 stick on, and some tin maybe cause that's generally what I get in my buckets.

I'm now for 8 WW / 1 1/2 lead / 1 50/50 solder if you are over 1500 fps. I went with 50/50 ww /lead + 2% tin last year and regreted it.

cast a 50-50 batch and I have lyman2 all ready cast plus straight ww so the test now begins.

The Lee 358 158 drops at 165gr for me. With straight COWW at 1850fps it is extremely deadly on deer.
I'm going to find out how good 1200fps from my pistol is this fall.

reloader28, that is a gift when they comeout that heavy. The "common" agrrement I could pick up in searching the net was pencil size holes with any less than 170 and specifically the 158's. To me that proplem is the boolet is to hard and as hard as it is to admit it sometimes we don't make that perfect shot and then get mad at the boolit. So the wet book test has never failed me yet and I believe the key is the mix of lead. I am concerned with the broad range of velocity the 357 gives. I know one thing the fruther out the more sure you better be of angle almost like with archery, I think.

Lyman # 2 mixed 50/50 with pure lead gives you 95-2.5-2.5 Lead - tin - antimony and has worked very well for me in 357 carbine and max revolver loads.

I also have some Radio Isotope transport lead of this mix and it works the same.

I think the trick is to get the tin and antimony of equal parts. This lets the metal be more malleable without leading the barrel.

In fact the 95-2.5-2.5 mix with gas checks is giving me great performance in my 30-30 and .348 Winchester rifles running 2200 fps.

Common mix is 50/50 WW and Pure lead. This approximately 98% lead, 1% Antinony, .25% Tin w/ the remainder being other trace elements. I make 96/2/2 from a mixture of 96/3/1 Isotope lead, Range Lead and 95/5 solder. The 96/2/2 has expanded well w/ a MP 359-640 in an 1894C. It's worked equally as well in a 300 Savage and 308. Coming soon to my 35 Rem and 358 Winchester, I have to many projects. A balance of tin and antinomy is what you want. To much antimony and the bullets will be brittle. To much tin and you're wasting money. There are some other effects as well but it really boils down to cost. Keep the tin and antimony balanced and you should be good to go.

and then there is the choice between water dropped or air cooled.
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Gas Check or no gas check?
If gas check, then use a softer alloy
With gas check I would use 7 pound lead and 3 pounds of wheelweights
Especailly with 2400, it should be accurate and expand on impact
Mike

Very interesting find. My 162 gr boolet (50/50 mix of ww and pure lead) fired by 13.5 gr 2400 which should be around 1100 to 1150 with handgun but more in rifle and very accurate in both gave 9 inch penetration and a massive mushroom of .650 and a retained weight of 157gr. Now to me thats performance. HERE is a interesting find for those of you who have lost deer with 158 boolets or the like of mine. The one wet book was a cabela 50th aniversary book with a hard paper cover but soaking wet. With that at the front of the line of books these softer boolets expanded too quick and would veer of to the least resistance. One went in 1and1/2 inch and turned and part of it came back out 5 inches from where it entered. I took that hardback book out and put a wet phone book in front and got good performance. I used to drive my self to migranes years ago testing bullets and boolets but this was the first I had expand instantly on a harder surface and turn and come back out. Some of you that lost you deer might have hit a rib or shoulder blade at the hide and that boolit very likely allowed that mushroom to be a rudder in reverse but istill steered the boolet off course. This explains some of those massive surface wounds I encountered when butchering deer at the butcher shop.

I read a post here where the Casters where using pure Lead in the Meplat letting that set a min. then adding WW for the body and base. then heating the Mold to allow the two pours to meld just enough so they don't separate on impact. From what they were saying those Boolits would mushroom like crazy but never lead the barrel..
It sounds like it would take a little longer to make but how many do you need for hunting??

I read of that also and did it. I have no complaints of it but if I was to do it again I would want 2 furnaces and go from one to the other immediatly.

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Originally Posted by RoyEllis

JMHO, but anyone saying a 158gr .357 isn't a deer killer is talking out of their sitter. Using the 358-158RF from a Lee mold cast of 20/1 lead-tin alloy over 7.1gr Herco, I've put 11 deer in the freezer, shots from 9ft to 81 yards. None of those ran more than 45 yards after the shot.
This load chrono's juts north of 100fps from my 4" Security Six, no barn burner but it's accurate. My thoughts....use an alloy no harder than needed to keep from leading at load speed with all the meplat you can get short of a wadcutter (they don't fly well past 50yds) and you'll get plenty of deer. YMMV tho.....

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Ditto!

These are MiHec 360-165s that I shot today. Cast from 75/25 + 1.5% tin (more or less....I just added a big SOWW ingot to an existing partial pot of COWW+2%; these are plinking bullets and exact mixture wasn't critical).

The one on the left was a Penta HP at 775' impact velocity, more or less.
The one on the right was a small HP at 1325' impact velocity, more or less.

Knowing how hard water is on bullets, I expect that the 1325' load would expand some on deer lungs, but would expand too violently on a shoulder to expect an exit wound. I *do* think it would kill, and quite quickly; I just don't think an exit would be guaranteed on a shoulder shot.

I don't particularly plan on shooting a deer with my .357, but if I did, it would probably be with a solid flat point. YMMV.



http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j8...psfprtxi1r.jpg

Lungs are mostly AIR, not sacks of water.

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Originally Posted by 44man

Lungs are mostly AIR, not sacks of water.

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Who said otherwise?

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Originally Posted by C. Latch

Who said otherwise?

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Originally Posted by C. Latch

Knowing how hard water is on bullets, I expect that the 1325' load would expand some on deer lungs, ]

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You can infer from your post that deer lungs are water. While I'm sure that's not what you meant. It can be taken that way.