Where do I Find?????

As the hair goes from gray to white, and the glasses get thicker, the memory seems to go by the way side as well. Anyhow, someplace in my memory bank I remember a listing of minimum starting loads acceptable for cast loads with med burning IMR powders. Am particularly looking for data/recommendations for 4895/4064/and 3031. Think there was one for the med burning Hogdens as well, but not fully sure about that one. Anyhow, if anybody out there can help, I would appreciate it. I thank in advance all who respond to this thread!
1Shirt!:coffee:

Try going to Hodgdon's web site and looking for
"youth loads". They have a series of loads using
H4895 (I think) that would be a solid base for
further experimentation.

Bill

Lee's 2nd edition manual has good info on calculating reduced loads.

Thanks to both of you guys, mostly for jogging my old memory! The Hogdens youth data is good stuff for real hard blts in 30. And----don't know how many times in the past I have looked at Richard Lee's data. Again, thanks!
1Shirt!:coffee:

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Originally Posted by 1Shirt

As the hair goes from gray to white, and the glasses get thicker, the memory seems to go by the way side as well. Anyhow, someplace in my memory bank I remember a listing of minimum starting loads acceptable for cast loads with med burning IMR powders. Am particularly looking for data/recommendations for 4895/4064/and 3031. Think there was one for the med burning Hogdens as well, but not fully sure about that one. Anyhow, if anybody out there can help, I would appreciate it. I thank in advance all who respond to this thread!
1Shirt!:coffee:

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you might try www.handhoads.com
go to page 3
clik#45
it is reduced loads colculator
i have tryed it it works

I believe that should be: http://www.handloads.com/

Gee thanks guys, I finally got me some good 7.62X25 data!

Ya just gotta admit that this reduced loads calculator is the cats whatever. Ran a few numbers against the second lee manual, and they check out very close. Super loading tool for casters. Ya just gotta love this forum and most of the guys on it, most of the time!
1Shirt!:coffee:

Yeah, the online calculator makes it easy. :-D

Got to use a bit of common sense about slow powders in charges that fill too little of the case, of course.

Just don't reduce any slow powders too far w/o a filler or you will get spotty ignition and possibly a detonation scenario- though I seriously doubt it would ever happen it's worth the warning.

For what it's worth I've found about 30-35 grains of 3031, a bit faster than 4895, will still cycle the M1 garand no problems and burn fine. I don't know how fast it was moving though.

The Lee formula is really easy to use. Look up the data for the jacketed bullet in the weight you want to shoot. Subtract the minimum charge weight from the maximum weight, giving you the difference to work with. Subtract the difference from the minimum charge and you have your starting load for cast boolits in that weight. With rifles and rifle powders like the IMR powders you are interested in, work up in 1gr increments until the groups tighten up. Different alloys and lubes are going to have noticable effects on the process, so if you make changes, you have to start all over again, just like changing any component in a jacketed load.
This from the Sierra Manual:
.308win, 180gr bullet, IMR 3031
Max load 39.0gr - Min load 33.8gr = 5.2gr Difference
Then:
Min load 33.8gr - 5.2gr Difference = 28.6gr Cast Starting Load
Test Loads for 180gr cast boolits: #1: 28.6gr; #2: 29.6gr; #3: 30.6gr; #4: 31.6gr; #5: 32.6gr; #6: 33.6gr; #7: 34.6gr; #8: 35.6gr
I would imagine that by the time you are up to #6, you will have found the most accurate load for the powder, and by then your choice of lube will be much more critical. (For instance, my .308 - bore.300, groove.308, boolit size .310 - likes 31.0gr of 3031 best with Lee 180gr WW boolits. EVERY RIFLE LIKES A DIFFERENT RECIPE. This is just to illustrate how to figure a charge table for cast boolits in any given powder. 3031 is not the most accurate powder with cast in this rifle, but it is a usable load. 4895 and WC860 both give more accurate loads, but the usable load with the highest velocity is with 3031, so that is my deer hunting load.)
BTW, I use a reject 8mm boolit to slug .30cal rifles.

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Originally Posted by versifier

The Lee formula is really easy to use. Look up the data for the jacketed bullet in the weight you want to shoot. Subtract the minimum charge weight from the maximum weight, giving you the difference to work with. Subtract the difference from the minimum charge and you have your starting load for cast boolits in that weight.

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That's an easy formula, all right, but I don't recall seeing it in my Lee book. It's a calculation based on reducing the powder charge of the maximum load (which is the only one Lee lists a velocity for) by the fourth root of the desired velocity reduction, as I recall. Don't have the book with me here at work. The formula based on difference between minimum and maximum recommended loads is arbitrary. Some powders are listed with only one load, the minimum being the maximum. Doesn't necessarily mean that reduced loads are unsafe, more likely that the full case load gives modest pressures and from a safety standpoint the load developers felt it unnecessary to start with a reduced load.

Personally, when I only see ONE load listed for a powder/bullet combination, I consider it suspect, regardless of the source. Several powder companies I will not name have published this sort of data. Generally, when I research it, their one listed load is near or at maximum. I simply dig out the "real" manuals by the bullet manufacturers to find the range to work with and go from there, as higher pressure jacketed loads are pretty much useless for loading cast boolits.

Ricochet,
I had marked the page with the formula in my Lee Manual, but do you think I can find it now that I look for it? [smilie=1: Of course not. All the more aggravating since I'm the only one who uses this copy. I did find where I had copied it from there into my loading notes. But it is in there somewhere. :roll: In any event, it's been working great for me since I discovered it in there when I bought the second edition, just before I joined this forum.

Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook has a lot of this type of information.

John in Oregon

Must be computer stupid but I can't find page 3 on the handloads website. How about a little help for an old f*rt.

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Originally Posted by versifier

Ricochet,
I had marked the page with the formula in my Lee Manual, but do you think I can find it now that I look for it? [smilie=1: Of course not. All the more aggravating since I'm the only one who uses this copy. I did find where I had copied it from there into my loading notes. But it is in there somewhere. :roll: In any event, it's been working great for me since I discovered it in there when I bought the second edition, just before I joined this forum.

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I was just looking at it last night. I think it was on pages 92-3 in the second edition. In that neighborhood, for sure. The formula is to multiply the listed maximum charge (for a powder in the middle range of Lee's load tables) by the fourth root of the ratio of the desired velocity to the velocity of the listed maximum load. Only works for reducing the charge, not for increasing it! Lee recommends using only powders that give a high pressure with a less-than-maximum velocity, not the slow burning powders that give a low pressure with a full charge (which are already reduced loads with a full case) or the very fast small-charge powders, with this method.