Do "shell crackers" require a federal license?

I have a friend who enquired about 12 ga. "shell crackers" a few days ago. These are the noise making loads for chasing off nuisance birds and he was trying to find some for his rural property. I sent him an ad I found on the internet and he checked into it and just emailed me, saying that evidently they are now under federal control since 9/11. That is, you must have some sort of ATFE license and an approved storage area. Now, this information came from someone in his area so I'm not sure of its validity. Can anyone shed some light on this?

Attachment 85027
This is a shellcracker in Georgia!

Well, thaarrrssss his problem! :)

Actually, I found my answer. Evidently the ATFE DOES require you to posses a Federal Explosives License (not an FFL). I guess things have changed indeed since the last time he bought any!

You do not need Licence if you make and use them the same day. Its a storage issue with the A.T.F.E.
State and local laws are the ones to worry about.

Make them you say? Oh do tell, shellcrackers are AWESOME

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Originally Posted by Hogtamer

Attachment 85027
This is a shellcracker in Georgia!

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First thing that came to my mind too.

Just get some of the ones that shoot out a firework. The farmers here use them to scare off bison and there is no law here about storing those kind. As a matter of fact I think you can get hem at sportsman warehouse.

I don't know if I'm on the right track with this but......we used to call those "Bird Bombs". They used to be real cheap oh say 10yrs ago and are a blast to use. But like anything last I looked they're $1 each and of course haven't seen them in years.

Hey you know what they say, if it is fun to do, somebody will raise the price and regulate it!!

Here's the Gov take on them:

http://www.atf.gov/explosives/how-to...uirements.html

This got messy after 9/11 ......... I was going to get a M37 launcher (37mm) as we were having severe elk issues in our crops ....... still do ......... and this platform gave us a bird bomb with range and UMPH ......... serious UMPH!!

Well, the 37mm and a smaller one 25mm perhaps went down soon after the terrorist attack ........ and that was that.

As the ATF continued pressuring agriculture and the powder industry ...... a new draconion rule came to light ....... with great push back ......... we have the current regime of restrictions.

The elk keep eating me out of house and home ......... and though the 37mm has been brought back .... it's nuetered enough to make it just a warmed over 12 ga. round.

Simply put ......... what's the difference between a round that will do the job or a whole box full of nuetered ones? Some one steals the material and would re-manufacture it anyway!

I'll laugh when the bureaucrats run out of food!

Three 44s

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Originally Posted by super6

You do not need Licence if you make and use them the same day. Its a storage issue with the A.T.F.E.
State and local laws are the ones to worry about.

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If you make it you are a manufacturer no matter if you use it right away or not, how is that not an ATFE issue? Buddy of mine had to stop making/mixing his own explosive at point of use because the ATF made a new rule, way back when.

If a fella just want's to make noise, an ether/hairspray cannon is very effective.

A new freezer for all that extra elk?

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Originally Posted by Three44s

Here's the Gov take on them:

http://www.atf.gov/explosives/how-to...uirements.html

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Being aware that there is a pseudo-FEL license to *purchase* bird bombs I believe it is perfectly legal to make them on your property so long as you do not transport them after being made. Same types of restrictions as tannerite. You also have to watch the NFA, specifically you are limited to a quarter ounce or about 100 grains. Some people say this includes the lift charge making your effective blast charge about 50 grains.

Also the ATF has special rules on flare launchers such as the 37mm. I dont recall the exact publication number but it said that if you were in possession of both anti-personnel rounds and a launcher you fall under the NFA and need to register the launcher as a DD and get a tax stamp.

AP rounds are things fired *at* someone not near someone. Smoke, concussion (bird bombs), etc are not fired at someone. Flechettes, BBs/shot, bean bags, wood batons, etc are fired at someone.

It is legal to own one or the other without registration (providing you dont violate other provisions) but possessing both at the same time requires a registered launcher and tax stamp.

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Originally Posted by 375RUGER

If you make it you are a manufacturer no matter if you use it right away or not, how is that not an ATFE issue? Buddy of mine had to stop making/mixing his own explosive at point of use because the ATF made a new rule, way back when.

If a fella just want's to make noise, an ether/hairspray cannon is very effective.

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You can make tannerite legally - ammonium nitrate and aluminum powder. You can also make bird bombs legally, or your own fireworks. There are a great many resources that cover this and how it is perfectly legal but if in doubt why not ask ATF if you are allowed to make for personal use on your own property providing you arent otherwise violating the NFA. They would be the final arbiter of this.

You may not transport it off your property though, once it is an explosive transport requires permits and licensing. That is why you have to mix tannerite at the range instead of at home.

ATF also has rules on storage if you make quantities exceeding a certain threshold. Even cops cant violate those storage requirements (20 flashbangs I believe hits the threshold) which really if you are making enough you should be doing that anyway. Separate it into smaller groups and store each group in blast resistant containers, etc. Dont store it in your home, near your propane water heater/furnace, etc. The rules on storage are not hard to follow and generally a good idea anyway.

I remember seeing 12 ga bird bomb shells in the 70ties. Had a box of them. All plastic see through green with an M80 firecracker. Went up about 100 ft and exploded. Just enough of a powder charge to get the firecracker up there.

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Originally Posted by Hogtamer

A new freezer for all that extra elk?

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This involves from 15 to 150 head of elk, tribal members are the only ones that can kill them as this is on a reservation ......... it seems there are never enough hunters willing to get after them.

The only legal means I have is non-lethal.

Three 44s

@Three44s - sound like what you need is a nuclear-powered electric fence.

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Originally Posted by Three44s

This involves from 15 to 150 head of elk, tribal members are the only ones that can kill them as this is on a reservation ......... it seems there are never enough hunters willing to get after them.

The only legal means I have is non-lethal.

Three 44s

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Sorta off topic, ok completely. Do you know if its tribal members or registered indians? If someone had a BIA white card (and/or tribal citizen of a different nation) would they let them hunt? That might be easier to do than 4 corners, where I current get elk from.

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Originally Posted by bretNorCal

Sorta off topic, ok completely. Do you know if its tribal members or registered indians? If someone had a BIA white card (and/or tribal citizen of a different nation) would they let them hunt? That might be easier to do than 4 corners, where I current get elk from.

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I believe it is tribal members, since the members on one tribal reservation cant hunt on another tribal reservation, but dont take my word for it. I avoid native lands at all cost since most natives are not too friendly if they catch non natives there.