Printable View
can someone point me in the right direction for paperpatching. was told could not use standard 45-70 cases, then what do I need to use. can I buy bullets or do i need to cast my own?>
my deceased brother used to say was hard to get cast bullets to be accurate without a gas check. Do I still need to use a gas check with paper patched bullets? What paper is best for paperpatching?
What is the best powder to use for paper patching?
Paul Matthews wrote several books you might like. He covered both paper patching and use in the 45-70.
I hope my bench doesn't get the note about special brass and bad groups w/o checks .
Read the paper thread in BP paper patch ......like 3x because the first time about 5% is going to stick and you'll be completely over loaded .
The 45-70 will fall in the awkward in-between place for BP vs Smokeless instructions unless you're loading the top of the strong Lever or into the Ruger/Mauser loads . Read both , make notes , try some stuff .
I can't say for buying bullets , but , 250-350 gr cast pistol bullets will get you started without need of special data and special sizing tools .
Your use and platform will have a significant impact on the following . There is no need for a gas check under 30-32,000 psi . 9mm , 357 , 40 S&W , 30-30 ,32 Rem/Win Special , 358 Win and even the 45-70 shoot just fine without checks up into those pressures with out them . I recently ran a greased plain base 458-201 Rapine 255 gr RNFP intended for early SAA Colts to 2000 fps MV and shot a 2" ctc group with no fouling .
Interesting thing if you choose to go slow and heavy the 530 gr bullets zeroed at 175 yd are 8" high at 100 and 10" low at 200 and carry 1000 ftlb past 250 with a 1100 fps MV . It is also about the same flight and energy as the fast flat pointy 250-300 gr jackets and coppers .
Welcome to the fun .
I do have those books, but he also says he casts his own bullets.
Can't use standard cartridge cases? That's a new one on me. Unmodified cases are all I've ever used.
Which paper is best? Hmmmm, well, there's no precisely "best" paper other than those which produce good results on target. I've used everything from notebook filler to plain butcher paper (no plastic coating) with good results, and each has qualities that make it preferable, like cheap, or I already have some, etc. A very good and tough-when-wet paper is 100% cotton drafting vellum, cut in strips across the grain to provide stretch-ability and shrinkage on drying for a nice tight patch. Others mention using heavy-for-caliber pistol boolits (.452 or .453) as readily patchable to final diameter from the mold. Not being a caster (yet), that may be a ready avenue of approach, after having removed the lube that will be on them (mineral spirits). Having said that, I've also gotten good results patching full diameter cast, patching and then sizing to the diameter I'm after, mostly in .30's, pistol calibers and .38-55, mostly with smokeless, but I patch-and-size the same day I cast so the boolits are still very soft and the sizing is easy.
This may be a helpful page. I've posted photos on how I do it: https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...2C+paper+patch
No special brass needed. I use what ever paper is needed to get the bullet I am using up to the diameter I need with two wraps.
From the dark side . I paper patch for several BPCR rounds. Here I normally uae bullet and paper that wrap up to bore dia. Here most dies are set up to size for a groove dia bullets so they wont size sown enough at times with some brass. A simple way to see where you will be is bullet dia an 4 x paper thickness. Thats 2 wraps on the bullet. My 45 cal mould is .442-.443 and the paper Im using is .002 when wrapped I am just a couple ten thousands over .450. wrapping to throat or groove dia the standard dies are fine. I also wrap tailless with a heavy wad under the bullet, Black powder is compressed so everything stays in place
Another Good source of info is Randolph S Wrights Loading and shooting the paper patched bullet A beginners Guide.
Make a patch template and try your hand at it see what you get with different bullets and papers.
Buffalo Arms sells swaged lead bullets for paper patching, along with the paper, and templates to size the proper patches. Nothing says that you have to use them, though.
I’ve had good success with a mould that throws a 0.452” 420 grain smooth side bullet and college ruled notebook paper and a moderate dose of 4895 in my Ruger #1
Green Bar paper is #1 suggested. But there are other paper's that work just as good. Straight wall cartridge case's are the preferred for bullet patching. But other cartridges other than straight wall have been patched successfully_so I've read.
Casting your own bullets is economical. But store bought gas checked or not 45 cal lead bullets patch up as well also. As for powder used? I don't patch 45/70. Although others here do. I paper patch 32 special & 32/40 for best 75 & 100 yard accuracy.
Paper patching is a 20th century technique not easily accomplished. Most here have learn how too as they >tried. One thing needed to be successful. Lots of patience's and a member here that is open to questions so to help you become a accomplished patch'er. Good luck with your'e patching endeavor young fellow. My condolences_Old bear 1950 for Brother's passing.
I have been swaging and paper patching 45-70 for 20+ years for full pressure Marlin use. They are not especially hard to patch and they work excellently on game with all the 4198 you can stand. I have swaging dies that produce .448, .451 and .452 diameter bullets. My favorite is a 350 grain truncated cone bullet with a cup base patched with kraft paper and lubed with a vaseline/beeswax mix. Matthews book, "The Paper Jacket" pretty much tells you everything you need to know. I cut my patches in bulk with a paper cutter and made the simple patching board described in the book. I've made thousands. I wouldn't do it if it didn't work.
Paper patching black powder loads was mostly born and ruled in the 19th century and then came smokeless powder with its need to speed up bullet production, which killed PPBs. As that transition occurred, a fair to great part of the paper patch process got lost and needed to get reinvented. We can thank a goodly number of 20th century gun cranks who brought back and refined the "paper patch way" that some of us enjoy here in the 21st century. Hat's off to all those old timers! PPBs rule!!
It would be a good option to buy a few boolits, templates and paper for your first try.Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholst55
Be aware that PPB for smokeless is different than black powder, mainly in the slick's diameter as they're bore riders for black and overbore for white. It's all in the fit of the PPB, where slick diameter and patch thickness matter.
It would be handy to have a "Pass thru Die or two" so to swage a cast bullet slightly smaller in caliber, than wrap that boolit up too its proper bore diameter. Only two tools I know of that will accomplish such a task. A Pass-thru-Die or a dry Bullet Lubesizer die. I've had good shooting result's using both tools. Although I prefer the Pass-thru-dies I had custom made years ago by a machinist. A Cast Boolits member who is enjoying his retirement.
I shoot paper patched in my Browning 1886 rifle. I shoot the Lyman Gould 457122 bullet cast either wheel weight +tin or 1-30. I size the bullets to .454 in Lee dies. Depending on the original bullet diameter I do it in 1 or 2 steps. I then patch up to .459 using bond paper. I wet the patch before I wrap the bullet. I set the bullets nose down to dry. Once they are dry I coat them with Lee Liquid ALOX and then let them dry again. I cut the tail off the patch after making sure it is tight against the bullet base. Then the bullets are sized to .459 in a Lee sizer die. Bullets are loaded in sized/belled cases just like regular cast bullets. The last step is to taper crimp the case using a 45-70 sizer die adjusted to provide just a little crimp. My load is the "Keith Load" of surplus 4895. Velocity of the load is just under 1700fps. I have little powder left in the bore and never have any trace of leading. This load is very accurate and not painful to shoot for extended sessions.
Bill
Something you mite try (depending upon what model of 45-70 rifle you're shooting) is wet patching soft lead boolits with that very thin and tough coffee filter paper and then push-thru sizing them to whatever diameter you need.Quote:
Originally Posted by oldbear1950