Homebrew parkerizing actually worked!

I tinkered with making my own homebrew manganese parkerizing solution. I did research on the web and found some ideas and a lot of different-but similar recipes.
The web info listed using products that contained phosphoric acid, but those recipes were from the last decade when acid concentrations were higher, and have since changed in this "greener" climate. I had to do some more research on local products and MSDS sheets.
I found a gallon of Krud Kutter Concrete Cleaner and Etcher (<40% acid) for a whopping $12.99 at Menards! I also lucked out in having a local potter/pottery instructor in having manganese dioxide for $3.00 a pound-no taking apart batteries--if you ever do, make sure they are NOT alkaline- they spew nasty caustic chemicals!
I started the one gallon formula with two ounces of manganese dioxide powder which gave the results in the pics below. I found that the powder did not dissolve very readily and ended up with a lot floating around and settling on the bottom. I did do my Ishapore refurbish using this formula since I knew it worked. The reciever did not finish as dark, except for a ring around the locking lug recess where they have heat treated it. The barrel and other parts match those below.

Attachment 17439
(test parts from a Lee Enfield in.303 British)

I since changed the formula by reducing the manganese dioxide to 1 ounce per gallon. Those test pieces came out just as the others.

My formula (use at your own risk and test on your own!!)

120 fluid ounces distilled water (I used reverse osmosis water)
8 fluid ounces Krud Kutter Concrete Cleaner & Etcher (<40% phosphoric acid)
1 ounce manganese dioxide
0.5 ounces (1 coarse steel wool pad) iron scrap

Some recipes call for iron filings like those sold through Brownells. I found an ample supply (5 pounds) at the local Ford dealership at the brake turning machines. I also found the clean steel wool pads at Menards that were pretty clean of oil. If you use steel wool, make sure they are degreased of all oil.

My technique (I studied the instructions from Brownells which is available online):

Have all you parts degeased and blasted to a nice clean even finish. Use rubber gloves and hang them on degreased black rebar tie wire. Spray down a final time with brake cleaner.

1. Ready a large stock pot with clean fresh water and bring to rolling boil.
2. Ready another stainless steel stockpot with 120 ounces of distilled water.
3. Raise distilled water to about 140 degrees and add the 8 ounces of acid to the water.
4. Add the 1 ounce of manganese dioxide powder and stir thoroughly.
5. Raise the temp to about 180 degrees and add the steel wool pad. Keep stirring and submerge the pad as it will have the tendency to float after a few minutes. It will gas and and create a foam on the surface. Keep the pad in for 10 minutes, then remove. It should be black.
6. Submerge the parts in the boiling WATER for about 3 minutes.
7. Remove from the water and submerge in the park solution. Keep the solution moving and raise/lower the parts in and out of the solution one in a while to monitor the work and to keep slurry off the tops. Hang the parts from a rod so they are suspended in the soultion and off the bottom. Don't let them touch one another.
Keep the solution between 185-200 degress and do not let it boil--ever!
8. After 10 minutes (which worked for me), but no longer than 15, remove the parts from the park solution to the boiling water again. (Time varies on submerging the parts- keep an eye on it keep from etching.) My parts came out very black but had a coating of "sludge" on them.
9. After 3 minutes in boiling water, remove and spray down with WD-40.
10. After all parts are done, brush liberally with clean motor oil.
11. After a day, lightly scrub the parts with more oil and a soft tooth brush. I then lightly rubbed them with 0000 steel wool to remove all traces of sludge.
12. Apply gun oil and reassemble.

I figure I can make about 16 gallons of solution for about $17 (acid, manganese, and steel wool). Two gallons was more than enough to do my Ishapore 2a .308

I found about 3 weeks later I could reuse the same solution after it had cooled. I had made up an extra gallon a day later after the others to do a forgotten part. I let this solution sit in the SST pot. During this 3 week time it froze solid for about one week in subzero temperature. When I thawed it, it was "half" frozen. I placed it on the stove and warmed it back to 190 degrees slowly. The solution worked just as it did before with the other parts.


Here is my new shutterfly site for all the pics: http://cheese1566gunsandstuff.shutterfly.com/27/

Congratulations!! Many have tried, but for some reason most seem to fail. Not sure why. Its not really that hard once a guy gets the hang of it.

Did you use any zinc? (I didnt see any in your recipe).

What are you using for tanks and heat? I used stainless steel mud pans from Harbor freight (also available at the big box lumber yard). I sealed the seams with high temp silicone RTV. Two or even three of them can be rivetted together to make a long skinny tank for barrels and such.

No zinc, I was going for the darker color. I have used Brownells Zinc parkerizing solution and it's pretty cheap, a little goes a long way. I think the potter also has some zinc oxide chemicals if I decide to go that way.

My main tanks for small parts was a 2 and 5 gallon stainless steel stock pots and a enamel pot for the water boil bath.

I zinc parked a shotgun using plastic wallpaper trays reinforced with a plywood trough. Not too bad, but they were flimsy and brittle after one use.

On my recent Ishy, I used vertical tanks from liteweight PVC with glued on caps on one end. Not too bad, except they became soft in the heat. (One tank for hot water, the other for the park solution.) I heated the water and soultion and then poured them into the pvc pipe. Then dipped the barreled receiver. Not too bad, but the pipe softened and became squished from the bungee cords. Good thing I noticed and removed the tension halfway through. I didn't see too much heat loss. I see one person on a homegunsmithing.com (?) post made an elaborate heated pvc tank. If (actually when) I do it again, I'll spend the extra few dollars and get sch 40 heavy weight PVC pipe and caps.
I did find in my research that some are using the stainless steel speed rails from bar supplies. They come in different lengths and are used to hold liquor botttles, one sight has them for $25 in 42" lengths.

Nice work.


Cat

Nice work and thanks for sharing your recipe and your results.

Ideas, ideas. I've always wanted a parkerized Mauser...Hmm..

Nice work cheese. I used one of the recipes on the Surplus Rifle forum and did a formerly black painted Ishy 2A. I had a local sheet metal fabricator build a stainless tank (<$50) in which I was able to place the entire (stripped) barrel receiver. I did the small parts in a set of those stainless cooking pots available at Dollar General for $10. Bought the manganese off eBay. The entire job turned out very nice.
35W

I for one would sure like to see the re assembled rifle.

I am still working on the wood and trying to get the cosmoline weeped out of the pores. Takes a long time on low in the shop oven and wiping down every 15 minutes. The long section of stock just fits and has to be wiped every 5 minutes to keep the cosmo from baking on the wood near the element.

I have a gallon of lacquer thinner and quart of Formby's Refinsher when I get tired of the neverending weeping cosmo. and then some Formby's tung opil low gloss finish. Hopefully have pics soon.

I may take some of the barrelled action today without the wood. A buddy brought over his new Ruger bolt action today. His receiver and bolt matched my parkerizing on the Ishapore.

:bigsmyl2:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cheese1566

I am still working on the wood and trying to get the cosmoline weeped out of the pores. Takes a long time on low in the shop oven and wiping down every 15 minutes. The long section of stock just fits and has to be wiped every 5 minutes to keep the cosmo from baking on the wood near the element.

I have a gallon of lacquer thinner and quart of Formby's Refinsher when I get tired of the neverending weeping cosmo. and then some Formby's tung opil low gloss finish. Hopefully have pics soon.

I may take some of the barrelled action today without the wood. A buddy brought over his new Ruger bolt action today. His receiver and bolt matched my parkerizing on the Ishapore.

:bigsmyl2:

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You'll be weeping oil for a year that way.

go to walmart and buy a Gallon of "Purple Power Degreaser" Spray it straight on the stock and wait 2 min. You'll see the oils start to flow. I had to do mine 3X with the stuff, hosing it down every 10 min or so.

It's biodegradable, non-staining, harmless to wood and does an EXCELLENT job of pulling the oils from the tight Mahogany stocks those ishy's came with.

WOW!!! Too cool! Awesome job!

UPDATE: I it can be reused at a later date!!!


I found about 3 weeks later I could reuse the same solution after it had cooled. I had made up an extra gallon a day later after the others to do a forgotten part. I let this solution sit in the SST pot. During this 3 week time it froze solid for about one week in subzero temperature. When I thawed it, it was "half" frozen. I placed it on the stove and warmed it back to 190 degrees slowly. The solution worked just as it did before with the other parts.

Gonna hafta give this a try!

Doesn't work and I'm pissed, sorry, I need to vent. And warn others on spending money on things which is money down the drain.



I wanted to zinc phosphate coat my AK parts. You can read a lot on the internet about the home brew stuff. Most popular I come along is this:



4oz Phosphoric acid 75%

8-10 zinc pennies which equals 0.71oz of zinc

1 gallon of water

A bit steel wool for good measure (I asked several people already what for but it doesn't make a difference if you throw a piece of that in or not. Also it seems you don't need the zinc at all!

190°F for your scam soup can even be 100°F or room temperature, only difference = takes longer



With that I managed to get all my sand blasted parts to a nice and even charcoal black. Really deep and rich black even though I didn't add manganese! I thought only manganese phosphate does give this black finish? Then I tried to skip the steel wool, so without the steel wool I got a nice black finish too. Then I skipped the zinc. And again, nice black finish.



Is it the SS pot I use? I used a Pyrex Beaker then and again, black finish. Great! Now comes the even funnier part. I took a wire brass brush and gently scrubbed over the parts and cleaned with break cleaner and kitchen paper. The parts went from charcoal black to mouse grey. ***? ***!!! That black finish came right off and landed on the kitchen paper.



I did a bit of research and came along this post:

Quote:

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I know this thread is old, but I figured I would throw my two cents in on the Manganese Phosphate coating.



You generally can NOT get a manganese phosphate coat using manganese dioxide. It is too stable and insoluble in

phosphoric acid to reduce and make the dissolved manganese phosphate salts that are needed to do a true manganese

phosphate coat. People claim to have done it and even have pictures of good results, but I believe these should be

attributed to a lot of effort to get what amounts to a blackened iron phosphate coat, as the chemistry just can't

happen using those chemicals.



The concentrated solution you can buy from brownells or midway contains dissolved manganese salts in the proper proportions,

if you don't understand the chemistry you can get really good results using one of them.



Simply put Manganese Dioxide will not phosphate coat your gun. Sorry! I know it's all over the web with people taking it out

of batteries and whatnot, but it just doesn't work. The best you can hope for is a blackened iron phosphate coat.



There are two commonly available Manganese compounds that can do it, one is Manganese (ii) Oxide (MnO), the other is Manganese

Carbonate. Manganese carbonate is the easiest of the two as it is the most soluble in phosphoric acid. If you try to use MnO it's

not as soluble so you need to provide a ferrous salt to help it reduce and go into solution. Ferrous (ii) sulfate works fine and is

cheap, but any ferrous salt you can find would be fine as it's just a helper of sorts.



For a true home-brew solution, try about a 1% phosphoric acid bath with either 0.5% MnCO3 or 0.5% MnO+0.2% Ferrous sulfate.

If you can get nitric acid easily add 0.2% nitric acid to the brew as well. Heat and stir until everything is dissolved, then

heat to 190-200F and submerge the thoroughly degreased parts for 15-20 minutes. You will get a beautiful manganese phosphate coat

that doesn't wipe off.

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So I think this happens in my case too. It's just a reaction between the phosphoric acid and the steel that I want to parkerize. But I didn't use manganese dioxide. I used dissolved pure zinc and phosphoric acid.

For me it didn't work. If anyone has a solution to this problem, it would be really appreciated if somebody could give good advice!

Freshly sandblasted
Attachment 325229

"Zinc Parkerized"
Attachment 325228

"Moved the adjuster a few times"
Attachment 325230

Your parkerizing recipe looks suspect. Did you dissolve the zinc pennies or just had them sitting on the bottom of the tank? It is also important to throw in some steel wool to activate the solution (you should see it bubbling) and temperature is critical. Your quote also looks suspect. It is the phosphoric acid that does the parkerizing and the manganese just makes it a little darker.

Search "Kitchen Stove Parkerizing By Dick Culver" for a tried and true recipe and I have used it numerous times. Unfortunately the original site is long gone but you can probably find a printable copy somewhere.

Quote:

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Kitchen Stove Parkerizing By Dick Culver
NOTE: I originally gave this formula to an interested individual when we were posting on the Ohio site, but it was lost in the transfer. I publish it again here with the disclaimer that I don't wanna be responsible for anyone ruining a $1000 part or becoming a vegetable from inhaling the fumes from some noxious brew. I've done it on numerous occasions with no ill effect (some will differ in their opinion of my mental state of course) but if you choose to play around with chemical formulas, you are strictly on your own!
INSTRUCTIONS FOR "HOME-BREW" PARKERIZING:
You need a number of things to do a "home-brew" "Parker-job", but only 4 ingredients.
1. Phosphoric Acid (the active ingredient in naval jelly [on eBay or Amazon] ) usually procured at a chemical supply house.
2. Powdered Manganese Dioxide (a very dense and heavy dark gray to black powder) also available at any chemical supply house.
3. Distilled water (I've used tap water, but the distilled stuff gives more consistent results).
4. A biscuit of 00 steel wool [on eBay or Amazon] (don't use soap pads or Brillo pads!)
I used to do this on the kitchen stove (I wasn't married in those days) in a one gallon Pyrex beaker (these little beasts are expensive, so be careful with them). Metal pots don't work as well (if at all) I understand, but then I never used anything else but Pyrex.
Proceed as follows:
1. Use one whiskey jigger (yeah, this is really scientific, right?) of phosphoric acid added to the water. Remember your high school chemistry, ALWAYS add the acid to the water, and it is best done by pouring it down a glass rod!
2. Use one whiskey jigger of the (powdered) Manganese Dioxide in the solution.
3. Bring the solution to an extremely slooowwww rolling boil.
4. Now add your biscuit of steel wool.
I used wooden sticks placed across the top of the beaker and suspended the parts in the solution using steel or iron "machinists wire or some such. DON'T use painted coat hangers or any wire with grease on it! You can usually get this stuff from a machine shop or from Brownells [affil links].
The parts should be totally immersed in the solution, being careful that anywhere the wire touches the part won't show on the finished part (usually easy to do ñ like in the firing pin hole of a bolt). The part(s) to be Parkerized should be totally "de-greased" and sand or bead blasted prior to finishing (depending on the texture you desire on the finished part). Once you have bead blasted the part, you should handle the part with gloves (never greasy hands) and store them wrapped in clean paper towels awaiting the Parker Bath. Any grease on the parts or wire will cause what can only be politely called a variation in color (the parts come out streaked and spotted like a "paint horse").
I usually let the part remain in the solution for a total of 20 minutes (less MAY work, but I was told 20 minutes so that's what I used and it worked marvelously). When you withdraw the part, immediately rinse it in hot running water to get the solution off of it. Use extremely hot water, and the part will dry itself. Let it dry (and get cool enough to touch) on some clean paper towels, spray on some lubricant and voila you are done!
Rumor control said that if you immersed the freshly rinsed and still hot part in Cosmoline.
it would give the sometimes sought after "gray-green" tint to it. I have never tried it. Cosmoline is still available from Brownells [affil links] if you are adventurous!
The original formula called for iron filings vs. steel wool, but since I didn't have any floating around, and didn't want to file on the cast iron stove, I found that the steel wool worked just fine. What you get is a chemical reaction that causes an iron phosphate to form on the metal (steel phosphate I suppose, using steel wool). I have found that the resultant finish is just as durable as the Arsenal finishes and has exactly the same appearance! ñ an attractive dark gray, almost black. Some say that adding more manganese dioxide causes a darker finish, but I've never tried it, as I was happy with what I got!
We often used this technique when finishing .45s built on early Essex frames that needed a lot of fitting, thus often requiring the removal of offending metal. I used to checker the front straps (also violating the finish in a rather spectacular fashion) and the resultant finish worked great and showed little or no wear even with extensive use ñ much like the official GI finish. I'm still using a wadcutter gun I performed the magic on back in the '70s and it still looks new.
A couple of cautions:
1. Always be careful of any sort of acid, even such an innocuous acid as phosphoric. I certainly would never deliberately inhale the fumes (although there is no great odor to the process that I could tell, but then I smoke cigars). I started doing this back in the early to mid '70s and still have no "twitch" that I can directly attribute to Parkerizing on the kitchen stove. Just use common sense, WEAR GLOVES AND EYE PROTECTION ANYTIME YOU ARE PLAYING AROUND WITH BOILING SOLUTIONS (with or without acids being involved).
2. Be very careful not to cause any splashes with the boiling solution (of course the same can be said of boiling corn).
3. Prepare your area and your parts before hand, don't try to do this on the spur of the moment.
4. Send your wife to see "Gone With the Wind" or "Titanic" or some other movie that whiles away a number of hours. If you ever want to do this again, make sure the kitchen is spiffy when she returns! In Gloria's case, she would be attaching the parts, but then I'm just lucky in that respect...
5. Once you have allowed the solution to cool, you are DONE! Reheating it don't cut it, It simply doesn't work (I've tried it on several occasions). Have everything that you want to Parkerize ready to go when you fire up the solution. You can keep Parkerizing as long as the solution is hot, but allowing it to get cold kills it ñ you've gotta brew up a new solution and start from scratch.
6. Do not name me in any divorce proceedings!
Good luck!

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Thanks for the reply Delkal.

The recipe is recommended by almost every source I could find on the net. I heated up the solution and let the zinc dissolve in it completely then added steel wool, dissolved too and then added the parts for 8-10 minutes.
As mentioned I tried it several times with and without steel wool, with and without zinc and with different temperatures. Always the same outcome. The blackish surface (which shouldn't appear with zinc park as per internet in the first place) appeared everytime and everytime I could remove it easily and wasn't durable at all.

I will try in a few days again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Schmaggefatz

Thanks for the reply Delkal.

The recipe is recommended by almost every source I could find on the net. I heated up the solution and let the zinc dissolve in it completely then added steel wool, dissolved too and then added the parts for 8-10 minutes.
As mentioned I tried it several times with and without steel wool, with and without zinc and with different temperatures. Always the same outcome. The blackish surface (which shouldn't appear with zinc park as per internet in the first place) appeared everytime and everytime I could remove it easily and wasn't durable at all.

I will try in a few days again.

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When you added the steel wool did it start fizzing? If it did your park solution should be good. Getting the advertised color is more voodo than science and has to be played with. Yes, you read zinc is more grey and Mn is more black but when you are doing a small batch results vary. For WWII rifles the holy grail is getting a greenish finish (and people have) but they keep it a secret to exactly how.

Your problem is that the park is rubbing off and not durable. Every part you park has to be thoroughly prepped degreased (twice). Then wear gloved when handling.

Thanks for the advice. Yes, it's fizzling when I add the steel wool and it's also fizzling when I add the parts so it should work just fine. I will try again when I'm off work so I have more time to try out again. Will report back. :)

In my shop I have two gallons of the Brownells parkerizing liquid at the moment. Never had a problem when using it per the directions. However working in four shops that did commercial parkerizing, learned that the parkerizing coat comes out from the very start soft, at that stage you must remove the coating from inside pin holes, gas ports, action close fits, threads, barrel chambers and bores with a brass brush. Allow the coat to rest for 24 hours, it becomes very hard, then spray soak, like dripping, with oil. The parkerizing solution coating when boiled, is absorbent when dry, so it soaks up oil, oil is the actual preservative, not the coat of parkerizing. If the parkerizing coat dries completely out, the metal under it will rust from absorbed moisture.

Today I get the coated steel pieces and parts in, to re-coat, mostly because folks thought the coat itself was the protection. Salt water, boats, gear, ec, do not mix well.

Long story, short, just use the Brownells, prepared formula.