Lyman 457130 Collar Button Mold Casts Undersize

I purchased a new 457130 two-cavity mold to cast some collar button bullets to try in my Trapdoor Springfields, 1871 Buffalo Classic, and possibly my '74 Sharps. I first cast several with COWW with 2% added tin. They mic'd at about .453"-.454". I next switched to a Lyman #2 alloy to see if I could get the size up to the .457" that I needed and they are advertised to cast with #2. They then mic'd out to about .454"-.455".

I really thought the switch to #2 alloy would make more difference than that. I really don't want to go to a very hard alloy as I plan to use these for some very light charges and figured a softer alloy (properly lubed) might lead the barrels less. Besides, Lyman advertises this mold to cast .457" with #2.

Do I just have a bad mold? Am I missing something about how to increase the size?

Lyman moulds have always frustrated me because they always seem too cast far smaller than they're supposed to. If I remember right, keeping the blocks very hot helps a little, but I don't have any Lymans any more for this very reason.

Have you thought about powder coating?
Should add some size.

What's the alloy temp?

Ladle or bottom pour?

I powder coat a Lyman 457191 to
bring it up to size. Use Smoke's
colored powders, not the clear.

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Originally Posted by Larry Gibson

What's the alloy temp?

Ladle or bottom pour?

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Both alloys were poured from a small batch of alloy so I used a gas heated pot and kept the temp about 700-750F.

Both alloys were ladle-poured.

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Originally Posted by btr-cj

Have you thought about powder coating?
Should add some size.

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I am not opposed to PCing and even have everything to do it as I considered doing it for some .45acp boolits. However, I'd really like to figure out if I am doing something wrong or if I just need to sell the mold.

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Originally Posted by Woodtroll

Lyman moulds have always frustrated me because they always seem too cast far smaller than they're supposed to. If I remember right, keeping the blocks very hot helps a little, but I don't have any Lymans any more for this very reason.

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Interesting.
I have a bunch of Lyman molds for different calibers, especially .45acp, 9mm, .30cal, and .45-70. Most of them cast as advertised. That's part of the reason why this 457130 mold casting so much undersize had me thinking that I'm surely doing something wrong or overlooking something.
Do you find they cast smaller even when using the Lyman #2 that the are gauged with?

With that degree of undersize as-cast diameter, the OP is gong to have four choices:

- PC
- Beagle
- Lap out
- Sell it/Start over

Alloy & Temp can only do so much....
and I suggest 0.460" is what you really want,
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...=1#post4788417

...PC would be my 1st option.

NOE has some collar button types.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mehavey

With that degree of undersize as-cast diameter, the OP is gong to have four choices:

- PC
- Beagle
- Lap out
- Sell it/Start over

Alloy & Temp can only do so much....
and I suggest 0.460" is what you really want,
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...=1#post4788417

...PC would be my 1st option.

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You missed the choice I would go with, and that is give it back to Lyman and get one in spec. The casting will need to be all of 0.457" and more to have any accuracy in a Springfield 45-70. I have the same mold. it is a novelty. Mine casts at .458". It is Okay, but I wish it were larger in diameter. Accuracy at 50' is still very poor.

I had a new 4-cavity, 45 ACP 230 rn mold that cast 0.450" and I could not keep bullets in the loaded cases. They were "finger loose" seating. That mold went back to Lyman Too!!!

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Originally Posted by Chill Wills

You missed the choice I would go with, and that is give it back to Lyman and get one in spec. The casting will need to be all of 0.457" and more to have any accuracy in a Springfield 45-70. I have the same mold. it is a novelty. Mine casts at .458". It is Okay, but I wish it were larger in diameter. Accuracy at 50' is still very poor.

I had a new 4-cavity, 45 ACP 230 rn mold that cast 0.450" and I could not keep bullets in the loaded cases. They were "finger loose" seating. That mold went back to Lyman Too!!!

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You probably are correct. This not an old, used mold (which might cast larger) but is a brand new mold. I can't remember where I purchased it (likely Evilbay) but that should not matter to Lyman. It was bought new and it's not as advertised. However, I've heard of folks sending them back to Lyman when they were out of spec and Lyman sent new molds. Some replacements were in spec, some were not. So after spending several dollars to ship it back, waiting who knows how long for a replacement, it still may not cast in spec. What then, repeat ad infinitum?

I considered PCing, but am not a fan of that yet. I considered selling it but that just passes the problem on to some other caster. I considered beagling it but wonder if that might create an off-centered boolit even after sizing. I might consider sending it back to Lyman one time but if the replacement doesn't cast to spec I'm not sure I'd try again unless Lyman pays the shipping both ways. This is just something that I wanted to try in my TDs anyway like round balls and #8 shot.

My main effort for my light TD loads will likely be an Accurate mold that Tom made for me a while back. He did a fine job on it. It's a 46-210 mold that I turned a (experimental) hollowing pin for. It casts a cute little hollow-base boolit that is .460" and 214-215gr with 1:20 alloy. I still want to try casting it from a 1:80 alloy as soon as I figure out the recipe for that.

Attachment 322639 Attachment 322645

That 460-210 is a cute bullet! I wonder how that would do in my 45 ACPs?

Back to your situation. The “solutions” you mentioned are temporary (unless Lyman sends a proper replacement mold). Lapping out the mold, while time consuming, is a permanent fix.

I am a backyard machinist at best. I do not own any fancy tools but make do very well with hand tools or very rudimentary power tools. If it were me, I would figure a way to just widen the driving bands of your mold. There might even be a tool for this purpose, that while not specifically for bullet molds, could be adapted. Decades ago I had a brother-in-law who was a damn good machinist. He figured out all sorts of these problems for me and built some tooling also. I lost him in the divorce. But, if you have machinist friend or neighbor, it can not hurt to ask.

I know Dremel, et al, make a variety of cutters. Not advocating that you use a rotary tool but figure out how to use the tool. I have made hollow point pins with corded power stills spinning my piece of round stock which I tapered against a belt sander. Crude? Absolutely! But it can be made to work.

There might even be folks who would do this work for you.

Kevin

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Originally Posted by StrawHat

That 460-210 is a cute bullet! I wonder how that would do in my 45 ACPs?

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Lol. I was wondering the same just this morning even before I read your post. I think it would have to be resized a bit too much to fit the .45acp since this boolit drops from the mold at .460". I actually had the mold cut to drop .460" with 1:20 alloy specifically for my Trapdoor Springfields. Tom at Accurate molds could likely make this same mold to drop projectiles at .452" with whatever alloy you choose to cast it from. There are better projectiles for .45acp though.

I have a couple of lathes and other equipment and tools and several years experience using all of it. However, to lap out a mold may be as simple as mounting a boolit cast in the same mold on a mandrel, impregnating the boolit with lapping compound, lightly closing the mold on that boolit, and slowly turning the compound-impregnated boolit in the mold. Depending on the grit size used (fine-very, very fine) the lap would need to be re-impregnated with compound when it quits cutting as evidenced by the lap beginning to turn smoothly. A very light cutting oil (Tap-Magic, 3-in-1, etc.) would likely need to be used to facilitate the cutting action of the compound.

That's a quick and dirty description of the process with some details left out for brevity. The process would make a good sticky if it is not one already. I'm familiar with the process and have used variations of it for other jobs but have never used it on a boolit mold. Sometimes barrels are lapped by passing a compound impregnated bullet through them to smooth out the rifling for hair-splitting accuracy.

I bought this one from M&P https://www.mp-molds.com/product/mp-...-cav-aluminum/
it drops them at .462 I haven't used it yet bought it because I hunted with a Katahdin TC 45/70 and wanted a chicken load. I gave some to my dad to try, I haven't shot any yet and neither has he.
I have gotten ill and don't shoot as much as I used to and only cast for 38 Short Colt & 38spl for Steel Challenge that I shoot on and off during the summer when I am feeling like it.