Magma Bullet Master

Hi, I am new to this forum but think it is the right place to find advice on Bullet Master casting machines. Does anyone know where to start when trying to place a value on a used machine. I may have an opportunity to purchase a bullet master but need adivce. The casters are about 7 years old (variable speed motors) and have had 2 owners in that period of time. Magma claims they will run 4000 bullets per hour but they don't qualify that statement with the bullet size. Does any one have real life experience with these casters? If so can you verify or dispute the speeds? The guy that runs them now is saying more like 2000-2400 on a 200 gr bullet. They run faster but leave more sprues and drops of lead in the bullet bin. Of course this all needs sorted out before going to the lube sizer. What items are prone to wear on these that may need replaced? What is your experience with mould life and how do you test the moulds to see if they are dropping acceptable bullets? Since I don't know what they dropped new I have no reference to go from except checking for out of round. Any advice or thoughts would be welcome. A friend and me are thinking of starting a cast bullet business part time. Any advice on alloys? I see a 91-6-3 has been recommended in other posts. In leu of used machines should a person consider a new caster that will accept different caliber moulds rather than all 8 having to be the same? Thanks in advance for all your help.

molds are good or they ain't
i started a small [part-time hahaha] cast business years ago.
buy the new one that you can do multiple ones on, and look at other molds than magmas
people who shoot will like the rcbs,lyman etc designs because they shoot better.
this allows you to sell more bullets, word of mouth go real far!!
a softer alloy is usually better 2-4 is a great one.
however that is a hard one to get a foundry to make especially in 4500lb
min orders.

speed is your key here as you want to be out selling your boolits not spending all your time making them.
trust me here, i couldn't make them fast enough i mentioned that i was starting
a test for a new boolit to a shooter at a match on saturday and on monday i had
four phone calls ordering a boolit i hadn't even produced more than 50 of yet
nor had i finalized it's design.

just my experiences, btw it has been four years since i stopped, and at least once
a month either me or my dad get a phone call about some boolits.

91-6-3 is a great production alloy with excellent high speed fill out. Check out different foundry's, the one we used to order from only had a one ton minimum.

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Originally Posted by Shoot_for_fun

Does anyone know where to start when trying to place a value on a used machine.

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Magma makes a good machine but if this machine has been run steady for 7 years..........I'd want to see it in production before I spent a third of what a new one cost.

I have a Ballisti Cast machine with no speed control. It runs one speed which is 2400 per hour. I cannot cast 45-255-SWC bullets at that speed without frosting using 92-6-2. If I lower the temp enough so as to not frost, the front driving bands didn't want to fill. Of course the BC machine only uses 4 moulds.

You are correct in thinking bullet size effects speed.

If you do decide to purchase a new one I'd like the lead on this machine please. Thanks and God Bless...........Creeker

Thanks for the replys. Magma has implied that if the machines were taken care of they should sell now for what they sold new for 7 years ago. I understand that to be $6,000 to $7,000 or so. I guess since they raised the price of the new machines it increases the value of the old ones. They said not a lot of these are out there. That is why I would like to know the actual production speed they can run at. Ballisti Cast has a new caster for $8,200 that runs with 4 moulds, vari speed with 2 blowers and big lead pot. No rated speeds however. They have the H&G moulds which may be more attractive than the Magma moulds. I would have a hard time paying $6-$7k for a 7 year old machine even if it was in good shape! Perhaps the business will not sell either and I can just select between new Magma and Ballisti-Cast machines.

While I can't speak about the machine I would remind you that 5 or so years ago lead (from the foundry) was going for 18 Cents per pound. Now, lead has skyrocketed to somewhere between $1.30 & $1.60 per pound from the foundry, although you can sometimes still get it much cheaper from other sources.

My point is: you might find your customers balking at paying much higher prices than they have in the past for cast bullets. So, before going into the cast bullet business, I would consider all of the above factors carefully. It wouldn't hurt to check out current cast bullet prices either to give yourself an idea of what you would have to charge for yours to make a profit.

You know I don't mind buying used equipment. If taken care of the bugs are usually worked out of them (if your dealing with the original owner he'll tell you these things a dealer won't).

What I don't like is paying the same price for used equipment that I'd pay for a new one!

Let's face it a new one would have some type of warranty . Lets also face the fact that, in this case, some one used this equipment to make money! As such he should have recouped at least a portion of his purchase price through his sales. The tax people allow you to "depreciate" your equipment over a seven yr tax period.

Now I'm not trying to say how someone should price his stuff, but there should always be a point of no return when putting a price on used equipment.

Whenever I plan to buy a "big ticket" item I look at new and used. I also draw a line I will not cross, as to price, when dealing with used versus new.

Of course two things that will affect that decision are condition and how fast I can get a new one.

Your trying to make money. To many new "start up's" spend themselves into "oblivaion" before they open the doors!

I suggest you shop a little more, crunch your numbers real hard and then add 35% to what you think it will cost you to open those doors.

If you think it will work at that point go ahead on!

Here is the deal, I can not crunch numbers if I can't get good numbers on what the machines will produce. These machines now belong to an estate. The guy that currently runs them is just helping out until a final decision is made on what to do with the business. He doesn't know what they will produce for sure as he has never tracked what they produced. I have some ballpark figures but would rather have a 2 or 3 month average. I know it is like wanting my cake and eating it too! I guess I look more at numbers than most people do. If you don't know what they will produce it is harder to set a good price. Both manufacturers of commercial casters I have spoken with won't give numbers, "it depends on the alloy, heat, humidity, bullet size ......ect". Dang it, they are in the business of making equipment I would expect a reply similar to " it should produce bullet X out of alloy 92-6-2 at the rate of 2400 bullets per hour +/- 3%". My partner already operates his own business and I am well versed in what it takes to operate one also. This is a part time venture! There are not any of these types of casters for sale anywhere that I can locate. Makes it hard to determine fair market value. They aren’t like used cars where you can find facts on repair costs, reliability, operating cost and such. I have no deadline as to when I have to be in operation so I have plenty of time to search and research. I appreciate everyone’s 2 cents worth!

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Originally Posted by Shoot_for_fun

Both manufacturers of commercial casters I have spoken with won't give numbers

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You should except the answers. Production depends on plenty of things. It's not just with bullet casting, but most things.

You say you don't want ballpark figures but that's about all you're going to get.

In the real world,
using one machine,
one sizer/luber,
one man operation,
answering the phone,
taking care of paper work,
packing your bullets,
shipping your bullets,
going to the rest room,
drinking & eating
fixing broken things or things that need adjusted or things that just don't work right

If you have a 10,000 per day average over a 6 month period........you'll have your ducks in a row. Been there, done that so I can tell you for sure, the best you'll get is a ball park figure.

I had 3 Magma and a Ballisticast casting machines and 3 Magma lube/sizers and was in business for 12 years they are both simple machines.The Ballisticast design wears parts out quicker than Magmas,but only uses 4 mold sets.Most parts for Magmas can be gotten from Grainger.

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Originally Posted by deltaenterprizes

Most perts for Magmas can be gotten from Grainger.

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Yes indeed......Creeker

The biggest problems with the auto casters is the sprues and/or the bullets stick,sometimes a sprue plate will not close properly or not at all and sometimes the sprue holes do not line up with the spout.
The lube/sizers have missfeeds and sometimes the feed bar sticks.
With help I made 20,000 in a day with 1 caster and 1 sizer.
I used to run 3 casters at once till I filled 5 gal bucket from each machine in the morning and then 2 lube/sizers in the afternoon.Each bucket held between 4000 and 5000 bullets.

Check out American Tin and Solder in Providence, RI. Their #14 alloy is 90/7.5/2.5 lead, antimony, tin. Talk to Allen. Best price is on 500#, but they will ship smaller amounts also. 800-292-3418

buying used vs. new, it all depends. how much money do you have, how "used" are the bullet masters, how much do they want for a used one?

I have a bullet master, an older one that is supposed to cast 3200 bullets per hour. I have never timed/counted to see if it is true. I can say that the bullet master does a good job. I can cast 8 different styles, however they all drop into the same bucket. I have to sort out by hand if I mix the styles, it is not hard if I cast .38 158 grain swc and .45 185 grain swc bullets because of the diameter difference.

you can email me if you have more questions.

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Originally Posted by deltaenterprizes

The biggest problems with the auto casters is the sprues and/or the bullets stick,sometimes a sprue plate will not close properly or not at all and sometimes the sprue holes do not line up with the spout.
The lube/sizers have missfeeds and sometimes the feed bar sticks.
With help I made 20,000 in a day with 1 caster and 1 sizer.
I used to run 3 casters at once till I filled 5 gal bucket from each machine in the morning and then 2 lube/sizers in the afternoon.Each bucket held between 4000 and 5000 bullets.

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We have had absolutely no problems with our Magma machines. All of the problems that can occur can be avoided by performing a preventative maintenance check on all components and then a quality control check on the product. Carrying out these duties regularly avoids unexpected issues from arising.