Small carbide ring on Lee Factory Crimp Die ???

I recently picked up RIA 1911 in 10mm so I started casting and reloading 10mm. Now I reload other calibers and I use my FCD on all my pistol rounds. Never had any problems doing this and I never had FCD size down my projectiles. I started loading Lee 401-175-TC PCed sized to 401 with my new Lee 40 cal die set. I always seat and crimp as separate stages on my press. After I seat my .401 bullet and at this point neck tension alone is holding the projectile tight enough where I cant manually move it. I do end up with slight bulging where bullet was just seated, not uncommon when seating larger cast projectiles. Normally I run it through FCD to iron out the sides but i never had FCD size me projectiles but now it seems to be sizing them down to around .397 from .401.

Since I'm new to 10mm I thought maybe some brass was thicker but I tried both Armscor and Sig brass and they both did the same thing. I've see that with 300AAC but its mainly because i cut down 5.56 brass so some might be too thick.

Before I realized what was going on I loaded and shot about 30 test rounds (WSF-6gr, #9-12gr). Here is the kicker though. At .397 these rounds were fairly accurate from what I could see as i shot these unsupported and I had no leading anywhere. This surprised me very much. I was expecting to see leading somewhere in the barrel with an undersized projectile like that.

No I didnt slug my barrel. I tried it once or twice and i never got any consistent results so I load to max chamber/troat fit which usually gives me good results. If it doesnt I get that barrels throat reamed. Size up and try again.

I did run into few posts of people complaining that their carbide ring was too small and few even removed it. Dont think I'm there yet.

Anyone else with carbide ring in Lee FCD that was too small? Should I contact Amazon or Lee? Is it even an issue if my gun functions and shoots accurately? I dont want to spend a lot of time and money trying to fix whats not broken.

I use fcd on my pistole loads also. I have noticed that my fcd will sometimes size my bullets down. I have noticed varing case thickness in brands some really thick compared to others. If it hurts accuracy just skip this step or I have in the past used the die to just barely touch the case mouth to take the flair out. It works for me. I have even had some cases of the same brand be thicker

The carbide ring can be lapped up a .001 to .002. A tube of diamond lapping compound is need ( should be available on e-bay or machine supply shops, MSC Graingers). a fired case or 2 sizes.

full length size cases.
drill primer pocket out for 1/'4 28 allen set screw
Install a 1/4 28 set screw in case locking in place with a jam nut locking it in place
a couple small pieces of flat stock put a small dab of the compound on one plate and spread it very thin
roll case between plates with light pressure to impregnate diamond into the case
Turning by hand work the case into the die using a tapping motion. Clean and check often.
When finished discard cases and flat stock. Do not try to clean or reuse as the diamond is impregnated into them

If its new die set I'd send it back to Lee!

This one has the FCD die honed for jacketed bullets not cast, send it back with a couple of sized and lube cast sample bullets and let Lee make it right.

However lets make sure your not doing things like powder coating or using Lee LLA which can add to bullet diameter OK?

HM

I'm not sure why you'd want to iron out the bulging at all. Maybe your chamber is fussy about cartridge diameter. As you stated, the heel of the wider bullet might be evident, but that hurts nothing if the bullet is seated straight. If cosmetics bugs you, and RCBS expander with a 401 Cowboy expander plug will add some more interior diameter to a greater depth so that the bullet heal isn't seat in into such a small hole. Then snag a taper crimp die.

Put me squarely in the camp of not wanting to ruin perfectly good cast bullets by post sizing.

I had an FCD for a short while, but it ruined my carefully sized cast bullets. It's really no big deal to punch out the carbide ring, just put the die on a vise (don't clamp against the threads just lightly hold the die and let the lock ring stop any movement. I used a 5/16" drift punch, and punched the ring out from the top. A few good whacks and it was out. It no longer sized my ammo...

I got one just out of curiosity as in 30+ years of reloading I never needed to post crimp size any of my handloads...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by marek313

I recently picked up RIA 1911 in 10mm so I started casting and reloading 10mm. Now I reload other calibers and I use my FCD on all my pistol rounds. Never had any problems doing this and I never had FCD size down my projectiles. I started loading Lee 401-175-TC PCed sized to 401 with my new Lee 40 cal die set. I always seat and crimp as separate stages on my press. After I seat my .401 bullet and at this point neck tension alone is holding the projectile tight enough where I cant manually move it. I do end up with slight bulging where bullet was just seated, not uncommon when seating larger cast projectiles. Normally I run it through FCD to iron out the sides but i never had FCD size me projectiles but now it seems to be sizing them down to around .397 from .401.

Since I'm new to 10mm I thought maybe some brass was thicker but I tried both Armscor and Sig brass and they both did the same thing. I've see that with 300AAC but its mainly because i cut down 5.56 brass so some might be too thick.

Before I realized what was going on I loaded and shot about 30 test rounds (WSF-6gr, #9-12gr). Here is the kicker though. At .397 these rounds were fairly accurate from what I could see as i shot these unsupported and I had no leading anywhere. This surprised me very much. I was expecting to see leading somewhere in the barrel with an undersized projectile like that.

No I didnt slug my barrel. I tried it once or twice and i never got any consistent results so I load to max chamber/troat fit which usually gives me good results. If it doesnt I get that barrels throat reamed. Size up and try again.

I did run into few posts of people complaining that their carbide ring was too small and few even removed it. Dont think I'm there yet.

Anyone else with carbide ring in Lee FCD that was too small? Should I contact Amazon or Lee? Is it even an issue if my gun functions and shoots accurately? I dont want to spend a lot of time and money trying to fix whats not broken.

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It's a well documented issue with the FCD and SOME cast projectiles.

Bottom line.. if the carbide sizer is making it too small, BUT you want the FCD, then simply drive the carbide ring out of the die.

The fcd is made to size the bullet and case to spec so the ammo fits all chambers even tight ones. There is nonthing wrong with it. It is made this way on purpose. Lee might custom size the carbide ring bigger for you for your over size lead bullets just call. It also if made bigger it my not chamber if your gun has a tight chamber.If it’s leaving bulges in the case by the base of the bullet you have over size bullets or thick case walls or both. In my 38 I noticed this in thicker cases. But they shoot fine as is

If a given groove diamter calls for a 401 bullet, then the minimum neck diameter of a loaded cartridge will be 2 x neck thickness + plus bullet diameter. That's the math. If that doesn't kerplunk, using a post sizer to facilitate chambering is messing up a carefully sized bullet. If they shoot ok swaged down, why not just size them smaller to begin with? Unless the brass is completely uniform, post sizing will make less than round boolits.

A better long term solution is to find thinner brass or to have a smith open up the chamber a tad.

I do own a couple CFCDs, but don't use them for the intended purpose.

If rounds will chamber as seated, without using the FCD then I would not use it, just use a taper crimp die and call it good. One thing the carbide ring does, as it sizes down BOTH the boolit and the brass, the brass has springback in it more than the boolit so now you are effectively neutering your case neck tension which is very important.

Except if it is a colket gcd, then you are still getting a case neck squeeze hold on the projectile. That Collet will for sure squeeze smaller than the sizer ring.

Of course the was answer is just to drive the ring out if you like the fcd minus the sizing.

The only rounds I've ever assembled that wouldn't chamber were from a maladjusted die and the case bulges. I have used .452" bullets in my 2, 45 ACPs and up to .358" in my 3, 9mms, with mixed brass (even with manufacturer's cases reported to producing cases with thicker walls). I have had faux pas with my revolver but never a cartridge that wouldn't chamber. But I've been reloading for quite a while and I don't think every gun I own has "generous" chambers. If a handload doesn't chamber, I find out why (never fro "over size" cast bullets) and fix it...

[/QUOTE]Before I realized what was going on I loaded and shot about 30 test rounds (WSF-6gr, #9-12gr). Here is the kicker though. At .397 these rounds were fairly accurate from what I could see as i shot these unsupported and I had no leading anywhere. This surprised me very much. I was expecting to see leading somewhere in the barrel with an undersized projectile like that. [QUOTE]

You explained a problem that could happen--thing is according to your results in the quote above
it didn't happen. I would move on, or find something else to worry about.

I always buy 4 die sets that include fcd. In all my other sets (9mm, 357, 45acp) I always use oversized bullets (357, 358, 452) and none of my other FCDs resize my bullets. There is noticably more tension pushing my 10mm reloads then any other caliber through this fcd. As a matter of fact as Doug pointed out I start with seating die (no crimp) and have full tension then I tried FCD with stem removed so its carbide ring alone and my bullets were shooting out the top and once that did not had no tension at all after. Brass springs back but lead doesnt.

Something else to note here. I'm using Lee 40cal 4 die set which everyone swears that it works for 10mm at least for now. Since i dont have much 10mm brass and most of it its loaded now I wanted to try loading some long 40s since I have tons of that brass. Yes I will be shooting that through 10mm RIA 1911 and yes it should work fine although I havent tried it yet but researched enough.
When I loaded 40s I ran those through the same fcd and pulled couple. This time my bullets were not resized and there was considerable less force going through the carbide ring sooooooo.......
Could it be that 10mm brass is thicker thus causing my problem or maybe the two particular brands that I have (Sig and Armscor) are thicker ? Could it be that 10mm requires larger size carbide ring over 40cal? Other manufacturers (Hornady, RCBS) mark their die sets as 40/10mm too so I'm confused.
Feels like I need a custom FCD for 10mm alone.

The Lee Carbide FCD is really designed for auto pistols; they need to have perfectly sized cartridges to work. Sometimes seating a bullet will bulge a case. Removing that bulge is what the die is for. I don't know, they may sell the die in revolver calibers too, but I don't see the need: if a cartridge has a bulge that keeps it from chambering, you know right away. With a semi, you don't know if a cartridge won't work until you need it.
I have these dies for 380, 9, and 45, and like them a lot.

Jes wonderin'; How were reloaders able to reload 284 Bizillion rounds for their semi-autos before Lee introduced their FCD? Proper die adjustment? Proper reloading methods? :kidding:

Yeah, the fcd tends to be a mistake 'fixer' especially for those that are under zealous on helping, and over zealous on crimping..