Final size sizing dimensions.

Been lurking for a few years but now have decided to start making boolits in 30 caliber, initially for my 308 win and eventually for a 30/30 mod 94 that I'm looking for used.
I have a couple of questions that are puzzling me and hope that someone can stop me scratching through my hair.
I bought the Lyman 4th edition casting manual and, tbh, am disappointed with it. eg it advises sizing 308 win and 30.30 to 0.308" yet advises 0.309" for the 30.06.
Many of the you tube videos recommend sizing to 0.309 for both the 308 win and the 30.30. Which is correct, 308 or 309?
Also the lyman book drones on about metallurgy of lead but I can't find a reference to the material to be used for subsonic rounds for the 30.30.
I recently had my roof extended and I have about 3/4 of a roll of pure lead (about 200 pounds) so I'm quite keen to use this.
Is this ok with gas checks in the 30.30 with mv around 1000 fps.
The reason I'm asking is I want to use the 30.30 in cowboy shooting as I got fed up losing so many 357 cases in the grass with my 94 win in 357 and the 30.30 cases are so much more visible.
We have to use subsonic rounds as the range is in a noise sensitive area.
I also have some much harder lead alloy but am going to use this with gas checks for deer hunting with my 308.
Any helpful suggestions would be appreciated.

If you're anywhere near Albuquerque I'll trade you two for one on the soft lead. That's what we need for muzzleloader shooting and it's hard to get compared to harder stuff.
That said, it will probably work just fine for 1000 fps loads in the 30-30 with some good lube. I'd check to see what size bullet a fired case will accept, and figure your ideal size diameter will be between .308" and that. Typically I use .312" - .313" in my Marlins, but they like bullets a bit bigger than a Winchester. Just experiment and find out what it likes the best. Most die sets expander plug is too small anyway, so you'll probably want to get a Lyman M die eventually when you get tired of shaving lead when you seat the bullets. Often a 31 caliber one will work better.
Enjoy your new pursuit, the more you experiment the better results you will eventually have.

I size all .30 to .309". and I'm doing the same as you with .30-30, .308 and .30-06.
I'm happy with it, although I might do a little better with .310.

You can get by with a softer alloy in the sub-sonic loads, Powder coating would be good for them also.
For pumping them on up much faster---- read up on the Lyman #2 alloy, it's the bench mark for doing that.

A heavy boolit, and staying as close to 1,000 fps as ya can might get you under the wire for it being subsonic.

You'll probably want a "M" die for expanding the case mouth like for straight wall hand guns.
With a good bevel on the case mouth, sometimes you can get by without it, especially with gas checks, but they're pretty handy

It all comes down to; use a fatter Boolet than you think!

My go to size for first trials in just about any .30 caliber rifle is 0.311". I haven't had to invest in a smaller diameter sizing die yet.

Robert

Add a little tin to your lead and it would likely work fine with the right lube. Sizing is a big factor that will be known after slugging the barrel.

When I started and didnt know anything else, I sized to what the book recommended. If i am not mistaken there is a sticky on bullet sizing and thats how i learned otherwise. I am using Tapatalk at the moment and not the site. Actually I haven't been on the main forum page in almost a year. Technology lol. Anyways, size the bullet to fit your gun. To do this you pound a slug through your barrel and size .002 over groove diameter. Then i happened upon quite the lengthy debate on here about throat diameter sizing. It sounded right to me and thats what i now do. Think i heard of one person sizing to groove diameter. Its not normally promoted thow because it often fails with a leaded barrel

I do pound cast of the chamber. It also lets me inspect the lead of the chamber also. My 30-30 has a .312 diameter throat so thats what i size too. The bore is .3 and the groove is .308. A .310 diameter bullet would work well also but then it wouldnt be supported by the throst upon firing. Theres a chance for miss alignment or the bullet getting mishaped or so the theory goes.

Remember we are shooting lead bullets so you can shoot the biggest bullet that will chamber with no ill affect. How ever to small and you will be cleaning lead out of your gun.

Pure lead should be fine for cowboy action. You are recreating black powder loads and sub sonic. You could also cut the pure with clip on wheel weights at 50/50 and still shoot it in a riffle.

On the topic of leaded barrels, its not a question if you lead a barrel but when. Keep the kitchen stock with SOS pads. When that day comes, If the leading is so bad you can't see the grooves anymore then scraffice your brass brush and wrapp a little bit of that SOS pad on it. Just enough to where it still fits down the barrel. It will only take you a few hours to clean out enstead of a few days. Dont beleive all the hype about this concoction or that or Hops 9 magic love potions. Elbow grease and time removes lead. I use WD40 and save my money. I wonder if PB blaster would work better..... thoughts or opinions?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rcmaveric

. I wonder if PB blaster would work better..... thoughts or opinions?

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If it can't find its way up under the Lead, and doesn't have the chemistry going on to dissolve it,
I don't see how it would work better than Hoppe's or WD-40.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rcmaveric

On the topic of leaded barrels, its not a question if you lead a barrel but when. Keep the kitchen stock with SOS pads. When that day comes, If the leading is so bad you can't see the grooves anymore then scraffice your brass brush and wrapp a little bit of that SOS pad on it. Just enough to where it still fits down the barrel. It will only take you a few hours to clean out enstead of a few days. Dont beleive all the hype about this concoction or that or Hops 9 magic love potions. Elbow grease and time removes lead. I use WD40 and save my money. I wonder if PB blaster would work better..... thoughts or opinions?

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

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Most folks use all copper Chore-Boy wrapped around a bore brush with solvent to clean the lead from their bore.

The Lewis Lead Remover from Brownells is the first choice of Professional Barrel Leaders. LOL

Take your 200 lbs of lead an add 5 pounds of tin to it. One pound of tin to every 40 of lead and a 40:1 alloy for your velocity level will be just fine. You'll get good fill out on the mold, and you'll get more boolits with little extra cost. Measure the mouth diameter of a freshly fired case and load 20 or so up and size them .01 - .02 over that. Try the first one to make sure it will chamber easily before doing all twenty. Use a quality mouth expander on cases before stuffing in the boolits. Standard dies come with expander balls made to expand the mouths with jacketed bullets not cast. Unless your using cowboy dies specifically from the die company. Good shooting.

Many thanks to all who took the time to give me advice, I really appreciate it. Once I get all the bits of equipment collected and tested a few I'll return and let y'all know how I got on.

I’ve been sizing 311 for ‘06 and 30WCF


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For cleaning lead fouling out of barrels, I drive a cork in the breach and fill the barrel with mercury, and then insert a cork in the muzzle. Ill stand it in a corner for a couple days, and swap it end for end a few times. Cleans out leading very well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MOA

Take your 200 lbs of lead an add 5 pounds of tin to it. One pound of tin to every 40 of lead and a 40:1 alloy for your velocity level will be just fine. You'll get good fill out on the mold, and you'll get more boolits with little extra cost. Measure the mouth diameter of a freshly fired case and load 20 or so up and size them .01 - .02 over that. Try the first one to make sure it will chamber easily before doing all twenty. Use a quality mouth expander on cases before stuffing in the boolits. Standard dies come with expander balls made to expand the mouths with jacketed bullets not cast. Unless your using cowboy dies specifically from the die company. Good shooting.

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Concur with MOA on the alloy mix for a subsonic 30-30 bullet. It's the alloy I most often use for such. Also, a plain based bullet of 150 gr weight should do quite well in the 30-30 for such subsonic use for cowboy action shooting. RCBS makes the 30-150-CM which is excellent for use in the 30-30. Out of most .311xxx moulds with 40-1 alloy the bullets will drop less than .311. They should not need sizing at all for use in the 30-30. A light coat or two of LLA letting them dry thoroughly between coats is all that's needed.

I suggest you use Bullseye powder with no filler or wad needed. Start at 4 gr and work up to 6 gr +/- until the velocity runs right at 1050 fps. The fired cases will only need to be neck sized and a Lee Collet die or other NS die will work best. With the softer alloyed PB'd bullet I suggest the use of a .31 cal M-die for neck expansion. Since there is very little recoil only a very light roll crimp will be needed to prevent bullet set back under spring tension in the tube. If you've not done it already you might consider shortening the mag tube spring to reduce the tension on the rounds in the tube magazine.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rcmaveric

When I started and didnt know anything else, I sized to what the book recommended. If i am not mistaken there is a sticky on bullet sizing and thats how i learned otherwise. I am using Tapatalk at the moment and not the site. Actually I haven't been on the main forum page in almost a year. Technology lol. Anyways, size the bullet to fit your gun. To do this you pound a slug through your barrel and size .002 over groove diameter. Then i happened upon quite the lengthy debate on here about throat diameter sizing. It sounded right to me and thats what i now do. Think i heard of one person sizing to groove diameter. Its not normally promoted thow because it often fails with a leaded barrel

I do pound cast of the chamber. It also lets me inspect the lead of the chamber also. My 30-30 has a .312 diameter throat so thats what i size too. The bore is .3 and the groove is .308. A .310 diameter bullet would work well also but then it wouldnt be supported by the throst upon firing. Theres a chance for miss alignment or the bullet getting mishaped or so the theory goes.

Remember we are shooting lead bullets so you can shoot the biggest bullet that will chamber with no ill affect. How ever to small and you will be cleaning lead out of your gun.

Pure lead should be fine for cowboy action. You are recreating black powder loads and sub sonic. You could also cut the pure with clip on wheel weights at 50/50 and still shoot it in a riffle.

On the topic of leaded barrels, its not a question if you lead a barrel but when. Keep the kitchen stock with SOS pads. When that day comes, If the leading is so bad you can't see the grooves anymore then scraffice your brass brush and wrapp a little bit of that SOS pad on it. Just enough to where it still fits down the barrel. It will only take you a few hours to clean out enstead of a few days. Dont beleive all the hype about this concoction or that or Hops 9 magic love potions. Elbow grease and time removes lead. I use WD40 and save my money. I wonder if PB blaster would work better..... thoughts or opinions?

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

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PB blaster messes with rust. A blued finish is rust. If your barrel is rusted under the lead it might help. You're on your own trying it. ;)

Bill

I start with a .310 and then try a .311 for my .308's, 300 Savage's, 303 Savage and 30-30's. Mostly the .310's work fine but a couple Marlin's work better with .311. I've tried .309's in my .308 Win's and .300 Savage's, .310's close groups about a .5-.7 MOA.