I need some revolver bullet sizing advice. (Long story warning)

I need some bullet sizing advice for an Enfield No.2 Mk1 so here I am with a story to tell.


I bought an Enfield No.2 Mk1 three years back and two months after purchasing this new to me gun (obviously) I was able to track down a box of Winchester 145gr 38 S&W bullets. I finally found some time to get to the range and let me tell you, loading a cylinder of a top break revolver is something I will never get enough of. It's the bee's knees. Swing out revolvers can take a seat. I fire the first round and don't even hit paper at fifteen meters. Well, it is a double action only so I probably pulled it. I take my time with the second shot and the paper only has staple holes. What the hell? I go into OCD mode and go through the stance/grip/sight checklist and take the third shot. Still nothing. I aim at the bottom edge of the target's paper. Nothing. I aim at the top edge of the target's paper. Wait a minute. Something's changed. The paper is missing half a circle on the bottom left corner of the paper! I hit the paper! I am at the top right hand corner of the paper and a hole appears a little to the left of centre and almost off the bottom. Time to go to the Internet!


Turns out the Enfield No.2 revolvers used a near custom loading of the 38 S&W. 200gr at about 650fps and nobody manufactures that ammo. Figures. I can either mess with the guns fixed sights or try to replicate the original load. Thus I entered into my revolver reloading adventure. I've been reloading for rifle and semi-auto pistol for a while so I 'knew' what I was doing. I check the bore diameter of the Enfield and find that it measures .363. Hey look! NOE molds has a mold for just this revolver. I buy it and make some bullets. Only ever having used Lee molds I was amazed at the difference. NOE makes some nice molds! But that's for another post, let's continue with my story. The bullets am dropping from the mold measure .366. Too big, I buy a Lyman .363 lube sizing die and all is right with the world. I buy a set of Hornady dies that were hell to find and make up a couple dummy rounds. It's a really tight fit. So tight that I need to put a crimp on the cartridge so it will drop into and from the cylinder. Hmm. I do some internet reading and find the section on revolver reloading and find that you are supposed to size to the cylinder throat not the bore, so I check the cylinder throats. Damn it! They are .360! So here is my question:


Can I shoot my .363 sized bullets though a .360 cylinder safely? I ask because I don't think a .366 bullet is going to take kindly to being re-sized to .360 and I don't want to spend even more money getting the smaller mold that is offered by NOE and a .360 lube sizing die. I've already spent more money trying to make these bullets than the gun is worth.


P.S. I live in Canada so shipping and exchange rate is a killer.
P.S.S. I'm also a poor student.

Find a smith who can ream your cylinder throats to at least .3635" and shoot .363" boolits.

If your throats are .360..there are plenty of std. Ideal/Lyman & RCBS moulds out there that drop .359-.360 bullets. I was trying to make a Webley/Kaufman .455 shoot to sights with black powder for up-coming B.P. match...only bullet I had was the Lyman 457191 @ 300grs. By chucking up soft lead bullets in bench lathe, I hollow based with Ball-nosed end mill ..gun was shooting over 1' high at 50yds. I started drilling out nose with larger dia. drills & greater depth..finally I got it to shoot to sights..with only 6 bullets left & match was next day! 5 shots at 50yds..I won match! So the point of all this is..don't alter throats or sights until every stone is unturned.

Bore diameter - .363"
Throats - .360"
Bullets - .363"

That is a recipe for bore leading. Revolver throats are the worlds best bullet sizer, your .363" bullets after going through the throats WILL BE .360" when they exit. Regardless of what size you made them they will be .360" when exiting the throats. Even if you sized the bullets to .360" to fit the throats these .360" bullets are now in a .363" groove diameter and will not seal causing gas cutting around the bullet and leading. You could also get cylinder leading from sizing down .003" in the throats.

I don't know anything about resale value or collectors status of Enfield No.2 revolvers but if you plan on shooting it you should have the throats reamed to match the groove diameter. Not an overly expensive thing to have done. If you are new to slugging throats and groove diameter I would also have the smith doing the reaming to re-check my measurements. Hopefully you used a good micrometer for your measurements and not calipers.

Rick

^^ good advice here^^

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cbrick

Bore diameter - .363"
Throats - .360"
Bullets - .363"

That is a recipe for bore leading. Revolver throats are the worlds best bullet sizer, your .363" bullets after going through the throats WILL BE .360" when they exit. Regardless of what size you made them they will be .360" when exiting the throats. Even if you sized the bullets to .360" to fit the throats these .360" bullets are now in a .363" groove diameter and will not seal causing gas cutting around the bullet and leading. You could also get cylinder leading from sizing down .003" in the throats.

I don't know anything about resale value or collectors status of Enfield No.2 revolvers but if you plan on shooting it you should have the throats reamed to match the groove diameter. Not an overly expensive thing to have done. If you are new to slugging throats and groove diameter I would also have the smith doing the reaming to re-check my measurements. Hopefully you used a good micrometer for your measurements and not calipers.

Rick

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So a difference of .003 inches between bullet and throat shouldn't explode the gun? If so I am OK with cleaning some leading from the bore. I only have 50 pieces of brass to work with at the moment.

No shouldn't "explode" the gun using cast but I wouldn't expect the best accuracy especially as leading builds up. Cast is far softer than jacketed and while it could cause some higher pressure it if your loads aren't near max should be safe.

Rick

It will raise pressures a bit, swaging the .363" boolits down to .360, but should be OK, as long as you aren't using top end loads. As said, you really need to get the throats reamed to a larger size if you expect any accuracy. OR, and this is a big one, if you could find a mould that casts a hollow base boolit and using a softish alloy, the boolit skirt might expand enough to seal the bore and you get decent accuracy. I think like the 455 Webley guns.

Can you send a mould to Eric @ hollowpointmould.com and have him modify a mould for you? Assuming Canadian laws would allow.

Reaming of the throats would be the easiest.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rockrat

Can you send a mould to Eric @ hollowpointmould.com and have him modify a mould for you? Assuming Canadian laws would allow.

Reaming of the throats would be the easiest.

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Canadian law is very relaxed on importation of firearm related products. They only thing they care about is explosive/armor defeating ammunition and firearms they have deemed prohibited. It's the American government that has an issue with sending all the fun stuff up to Canada like scopes, but molds in this case are not regulated.

If I were in your shoes, my first move would be to look for a .38\.357 mold with a hollow back (or maybe something for black powder) and size ~.360". There is something to be said for keeping the gun in as issued condition. Also, I think this is how the British made this round, but I can't find the reference right now.

Listen to Rick.

No danger here from a bit over or undersized, but to get best accy, and avoid leading, the throat
(cylindrical portion at the front of the cylinders) needs to be at or ideally .001 larger than GROOVE
diameter (bore diameter is the size of the hole before they cut the grooves, the top of
the lands). And boolits should be sized to throat diameter.

All the cast bullets I have ever bought that replicate the British 38-200 have been .363.

Just remember some of the top break are not as strong as the swing out.