Wasp Rice Shot Loads: .38/.45LC

[steve urquell]

Copperheads and rattlers are my sworn enemies. There are no cottonmouths where I live or at least I have never heard of anyone seeing one around here. I consider the copperhead more dangerous than a rattler because he does not rattle to give warning and also, they seem to be more mean tempered than rattlers. Get within striking distance and they usually strike. It a purely defensive reaction but one than can mean a lot of trouble. I have a healthy respect for both and keep a sharp lookout when in the woods. Don't ever step over a log in the woods without first checking under it and on the other side, I know from experience they like to lay there. It is good ambush territory for them. james

Yep, copperheads are responsible for most bites here because they won't move when you walk around them and people step on them and get bit. I was setting up for a party here and backed up and bumped my heel on one of my landscape timbers.

Looked down and a big copperhead was laying on the other side of it. Never moved. I got lucky. Went in the house and grabbed my .22 pistol and took his head off. Pretty big one as you know they don't get long, just fatter.

[TNsailorman]

I have always thought that copperheads have a vicious look to them. Like I said, the fight is on if I see one.

[steve urquell]

I have always thought that copperheads have a vicious look to them. Like I said, the fight is on if I see one.

Yep. My nurse wife came home from work today saying a patient came in to her urgent care clinic. Reached down into her flower bed and got nailed by one. Sent her the the ER.

[TNsailorman]

When I was very young our next door neighbor was an older woman in in 60's. She had lived most of her life on a farm with her husband over on the border close to the Kentucky and Tennessee line. Over time she was bitten 3 times by copperheads while she worked in her bean patch. Twice while picking beans and once while hoeing her bean patch. She said the first bite made her very sick for days and only the doctors care pulled her through. The second bite made her sick for one day and swelled some but was nothing like the first bite. The third bite she said didn't even affect her all that much, sick at her stomach and ran a temperature but did not put her off her feet. Her doctor told her that her body was building up resistance to the venom every time she got bitten. I have never heard this before or after but she was a Christian lady and I do believe both she and her doctor thought she was building up her resistance to venom. james

[HWooldridge]

People can build up tolerance to snake bites - it's just that most people don't get bitten more than once. I had a blue heeler dog which I know for a fact was bitten four times in the course of her life - the last one was a big snake and hit her at least twice. She lasted most of that same day but finally gave up the ghost. My wife shot that rattler with my 44 SAA (in the head, with slugs, no snakeshot loads).

There was a herpetologist in Florida some years ago who had been bitten by several different venomous snakes during his lifetime and lived through each one, until a king cobra hit him with a big load. That one killed him.

[steve urquell]

Bill Haast was a herpetologist who injected himself with venom and had high resistance to bites.

"Mr. Haast was bitten at least 173 times by poisonous snakes, about 20 times almost fatally. It was all in a day’s work for probably the best-known snake handler in the country, a scientist-cum-showman who made enough money from milking toxic goo from slithery serpents to buy a cherry-red Rolls-Royce convertible.

A secret of his success was the immunity he had built up by injecting himself every day for more than 60 years with a mix of venoms from 32 snake species."
https://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/18/us/18haast.html

[HWooldridge]

Bill Haast was a herpetologist who injected himself with venom and had high resistance to bites.

"Mr. Haast was bitten at least 173 times by poisonous snakes, about 20 times almost fatally. It was all in a day’s work for probably the best-known snake handler in the country, a scientist-cum-showman who made enough money from milking toxic goo from slithery serpents to buy a cherry-red Rolls-Royce convertible.

A secret of his success was the immunity he had built up by injecting himself every day for more than 60 years with a mix of venoms from 32 snake species."
https://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/18/us/18haast.html

That's the guy - I recalled he was killed by the cobra but apparently not. Maybe all that snake venom helped him live to be 100!

[steve urquell]

OK, here's the evolution of this for me. I wanted to add more rice. Bought some 00 gel capsules from Amazon. They measure .330" on the cap, .310" on the body.



A full case of rice in my 9mm was 8 grains weight. I zeroed the case with the empty cap on and it added 6.5grains of rice weight. SO 14.5 grains of rice vs 8.


Here's the pattern at 2ft. Pretty danged tight.


I still haven't perfected how to crimp/fix it into the case. I put this thru the seater die and it mashed it down enough to hold it in but I don't consider it secure. Open to ideas on that. A crimp won't work. I tried it with my .380 die and crimped it down to where the case was bottlenecked and it fell into the chamber 1/8" down---seats on the case mouth--DUH! .38spl would probably be fine.

[dverna]

OK, here's the evolution of this for me. I wanted to add more rice. Bought some 00 gel capsules from Amazon. They measure .330" on the cap, .310" on the body.



A full case of rice in my 9mm was 8 grains weight. I zeroed the case with the empty cap on and it added 6.5grains of rice weight. SO 14.5 grains of rice vs 8.


Here's the pattern at 2ft. Pretty danged tight.


I still haven't perfected how to crimp/fix it into the case. I put this thru the seater die and it mashed it down enough to hold it in but I don't consider it secure. Open to ideas on that. A crimp won't work. I tried it with my .380 die and crimped it down to where the case was bottlenecked and it fell into the chamber 1/8" down---seats on the case mouth--DUH! .38spl would probably be fine.

Maybe a wrap of blue painters tape?

[steve urquell]

Maybe a wrap of blue painters tape?

That might work. I'll give it a shot.

I played around with scrunching the full capsule down on a near full case and it snugged it up. With the tape it may be just right.

[35 Rem]

Now that is an interesting development with these rice bug loads. I never knew you could buy empty capsules like that. I'm looking on Amazon and the brand I'm seeing shows size 0 capsules to be .3" diameter and .85" long while size 00 is .33" diameter and .92" long.

Size 000 are .39" diameter and 1.03" long - maybe these could be used in 44 calibers using Dverna's tape idea?

The extra payload outside the case should add significant effectiveness regardless of which is used.

[SSGOldfart]

maybe a drop of glue that cap won't last long anyhow..

[35 Rem]

Are you still using an over powder wad of some sort? I'd think it would help since that capsule doesn't have much strength but then the rice is so light who knows. IF cutting all the wads could be avoided it would sure be nice. I made about 50 the other day just using a 38 case that I sharpened using an RCBS deburring tool and cut them out of a Styrofoam egg carton and its sort of tedious. Not real hard but I'd avoid it in a minute if these capsules work without them.

[steve urquell]

Now that is an interesting development with these rice bug loads. I never knew you could buy empty capsules like that. I'm looking on Amazon and the brand I'm seeing shows size 0 capsules to be .3" diameter and .85" long while size 00 is .33" diameter and .92" long.

Size 000 are .39" diameter and 1.03" long - maybe these could be used in 44 calibers using Dverna's tape idea?

The extra payload outside the case should add significant effectiveness regardless of which is used.

I had some of the 000 capsules in the cart but figured they'd be too big for .38/9mm so I removed them. I'm happy with the increased load. I didn't think it would add that much but it looks to be an 80% increase. Kicking around making some shotgun shot loads with these.

maybe a drop of glue that cap won't last long anyhow..

I did a little wax but it was awkward because of trying to get it in at an angle. I may put a few drops of glue on there and check it out.

[steve urquell]

Are you still using an over powder wad of some sort? I'd think it would help since that capsule doesn't have much strength but then the rice is so light who knows. IF cutting all the wads could be avoided it would sure be nice. I made about 50 the other day just using a 38 case that I sharpened using an RCBS deburring tool and cut them out of a Styrofoam egg carton and its sort of tedious. Not real hard but I'd avoid it in a minute if these capsules work without them.

I did use a cereal box wad because I wanted the capsule open to let the shot out. I only used the top or bottom of the capsules. I'll try a few closed and see if they open up.

Cutting the wads in the drill press is super easy. I have a cereal box folded and cut 2 wads per downstroke. Last time I got 20 wads in my .38 case. Did 2 batches for 40 total and put them in a pill bottle.

[steve urquell]

Alright, played around with the capsules some more. Capsules hold 16.5gr of rice.


I loaded them directly over powder with no wad. They did not open up at 2ft so I X-cut the tips and wrapped them with 2 wraps of tape (thanks Dverna)and got a tight group at 2ft.



I also tried some #7.5 shot with the x-cut tip. It did great at 4ft but needed more powder. I got a bath in 7.5 shot and it didn't even penetrate the cardboard lol.

[steve urquell]

Forgot to add. The last x-cut rice capsule I shot was still inside the 9mm case after firing. It blew thru the capsule.

[dverna]

That is a nice pattern Steve!

[steve urquell]

That is a nice pattern Steve!

Thanks for the tape idea. The x-cut in the tip did it. I'm gonna beef up that lead shot load with more powder and see what it will do. This is fun stuff.

[Barry54]

The capsules are a great idea!

Instead of wax, how about Lee Liquid Alox to stick them in place? Would it degrade the capsule material?