M1 Garand in .308 WIN - just purchased ! LOADS ?

[country gent]

With the criterion barrel it sounds more like a CMP/DCM rebarrel than an military one. When the "naveys" were assembled criterion wasnt here yet.Would be interesting to know if its a standard contour, med heavy or full heavy barrel.
My garand in 308 has a 4 groove 1-10 twist med heavy barrel on it made by Douglas. Its a shooter. M852 match ammo in it is a real performer at 600 yds. My rifle is at 2-3 clicks up at 200yds, 300yds is 5-6 clicks up, and 600 is around 18 up this is from memory. For years this was used as a loaner rifle for gents starting out in high power.

I believe hoirnady has a service rifle section in their loading manuals that is also at the correct port pressures.

HAs your rifle been glass bedded, or any other match mods done.

[Ford SD]

BMB on the bolt = Beretta its a good bolt

CBI Barrel Drawing #/ Twist / Date made / and I think port size

[DoctorBill]

.
I suppose the answer(s) to this are posted somewhere, but it is difficult
to ask questions or search for answers when you do not even know the
proper jargon to ask !

THAT is the BIGGEST problem in looking for information !

So....here is my question: IF the Receiver was made in late Sept of 1940 for
30-06 cartridges, then HOW was it modified to use .308 ?
Milled off back shorter, then .308 port welded on ?
THEN the Criterion barrel screwed on in 2006 (06-15) ?

I am an 81 yr old, fairly ignorant, amateur "Machinist" - so I am interested in
THE HOW of the 30-06 M1 Garand's modification.....what did they do ?

I hope I asked that correctly ? !

Then....BMB = Bridgeport Manufacturing Company according to internet site
https://thegunzone.com/what-is-bmb-m...for-m1-garand/
How do you interpret 06-15 for a date ? June of 2015 ? Quite new then !!!!
What does .093 signify ? What is "Port Size" ?

Just for the Grins of it: 1 in 10 twist.
2,000 fps x 12"/ft = 24,000 inches/sec velocity
x 60 sec/min = 1,440,000 inches / min muzzle velocity
x .83 turns/ 12 inches = 99,000 rpm of bullet (?) Is THAT right or possible ?
Muddled ? Confusing...

JUST found this !
https://www.standardpartsllc.com/pro...?idCategory=15

Ignorance is expensive .........but it's fun to learn.

DoctorBill (retired PhD Biochemist UC Davis 1973)

[Delkal]

The receiver was not modified. They just installed and headspaced a new .308 barrel that has the correct port size already drilled. I believe the barrel was made in 6/2015 and Criterion makes good barrels. The plastic spacer under the receiver is so you can't load 30-06.

I mistakenly said the BMB bolt was Greek but it was an Italian part that were on the earlier Danish CMP returns. I got the Greek and Danish issues mixed up. Like the US the Danes rebuilt the rifles to keep them going and had some Italian versions of the Garand. And like the US they made no attempt to match parts. If it was in spec it was installed. I believe the BMB bolt was made by Breda and Baretta parts were stamped PB (but check). It doesn't matter though because the Italian garands and parts had excellent machining and are of equivalent quality to USGI.

I think you will be pleased with this rifles accuracy.

[Ford SD]

How can you shoot 308 in a action designed for 3006

Good News you have a barrel Marked 308 so instead of using a 30-06 reamer they used a 308 reamer
Just be careful if you more than 1 garand on the shooting bench
Your rifle has a plastic block in it to prevent loading 3006
metal one here
https://www.fulton-armory.com/spacerblockf308cal.aspx

Beretta made a bunch of rifles by cutting off app 1/2 off the back of the barrel and retreading the stub and cutting a new chamber
then cut the stock and the op rod 1/2 inch (These ones they remarked the receiver stub to 308)

They also inserting a insert in the barrel to do the conversion ( most if these inserts would self extract with a brass case) you will most likly not find one of these barrels

CBI
Makes short chambered barrels for the M1 Garand
in
3006
308
35 Wheelen
270 Winchester
6.5 Creedmore

and i think in the past 358 winchester

[DoctorBill]

Thanks for the clarification delkal !

Trying to find out just who did what and when is daunting !

I have many old 19th century English rifles (a Martini Henry and a Snider for example)
and the stamps and proof marks are an Archivists nightmare !

So....it looks like my .308 M1 Garand has a relatively 'new' barrel and a
"Bridgeport Manufacturing Company" bolt installed. A "FRANKENSTEIN" !
As to the trigger assembly....?

I have to WAIT another 6 days before I get my rifle due to my State's
Liberal Democrat, 'progressive' rules for transfer. I desperately want to RANT here.....
but I will restrain myself.

DoctorBill

[Baltimoreed]

I seem to remember someone offering a 25-06 barrel for the M1. I would have got one of those when I had my M1 put together. Had a Ruger #1V and then a Sendero in 25-06 back then. Enjoy your new toy Doc.

[Delkal]

Last I heard you can give your rifles serial number and $25 to the CMP and they will tell you if they sold it and when. I believe they will aslo know what grade it was sold as and if it was in .308. I don't think it will change the value but you can decide if it is worth it.

Your rifle is not a Frankenstein. It is a mixmaster same as 99% of the Garands out there. After WWII all of the Garands and carbines were stripped, refinished, and put back together from the random parts in bins. For most rifles the best you could do is have an original barreled receiver or an original trigger group that may or may not be correct for your rifle. They did the same after Korea and also sent thousands of rifles overseas to foreign nations we supported. We let them use them but this was considered a loan and they were supposed to be returned after they were no longer used. When all of the US based rifles were gone the CMP started getting the loaned rifles back from the Danish then the Greeks. They are not considered imports since they were always US property. They just spent some time in a foreign country. Now the number of surplus rifles are almost gone and the CMP has been getting smaller numbers of Garands back from other countries. Many of these newer returns are in rough condition but the CMP rebuilds these to make them serviceable again. One of the biggest problems are worn out barrels so they have been using new Criteron barrels for some time now. Many also have commercial stocks.

[country gent]

When the Military adopted the M14 and went with it the Navy stayed with the garand after a few years to make ammo supply easier these were first converted with a insert pressed in the chamber that converted them to 308. there was a spacer that went in the mag well to keep 30-06 being loaded ( 06 wouldnt fire but a round left to slam home would jam the rifle up.). No modifications to the receivers or en block clip were needed. Then after a few inserts had came out the rifles were fitted with new 308 barrels, chambered for 308. these navy garands were normally exceptional shooters.

When you get your rifle and seat the first clip of 308 you will see that the action is long with a lot more room at the front of the rounds.

Some say the better accuracy was the 308 round but I also think the rifles converted were for just the navy were a short run for the arsenal doing the conversion so a little more attention was paid to them.

It used to be common to shim garands actions into the stock with paper shims to tighten them up this did help accuracy. When disassembling a garand be aware of this and watch for them. The barreled action dosnt come straight up out of the stock but comes out in a arc swinging up and forward.

A good addition to the rifle is a sled clip ( single load enhancment device) This allows single rounds to be loaded easily.

[DoctorBill]

.
I saw something neat which I just ordered from E-Bay.



https://www.ebay.com/itm/353136798339

It holds the Breech open (saves fingers) and catches dirty Hoppe's #9
dripping patches as they emerge from the barrel end.
Clever what these 2nd Amendment people come up with....

There are two types of Shooters for M1 Garand:

1. Those that have received their M1 Thumb

2. Those who are going to receive their M1 Thumb.


I got my M1 Thumb back in 1968 in ROTC Drill at the University
of Illinois. But, looking back, I had fun in Drill on the Armory
Floor of packed down black ground up coal coke.

DoctorBill

PS - Being a FRANKENSTEIN isn't all bad....after all it was stronger than normal,
became very intelligent and prevailed, in the end.....(Mary Shelley)

[country gent]

I have that cleaning insert they work well not just with the garand but the M1A/M14 as well. Another way is to clean with the rifle upside down in a cradle. You can make a cradle from a old card board box by cutting a notch or vee in each end so the rifle can set in it. Even with the insert this is a good idea. Also use a muzzle protector when cleaning.

The dewey 30 cal service rifle rods were very good right dia and just long enough. The shorter length makes cleaning from the muzzle mush easier to control.

The military tool is a great one to have, has everything needed to work on the rifle in the field and a chamber brush or swab. With it you can clean the chamber, change extractor / spring, ejector / spring, firing pin. pull the gas plug. Its a handy tool to have. When changing the extractor it keeps the ejector and springs captive so they dont disappear into the nether world. You can on a 308 rifle do this with a 30-06 case and small screw driver also. Having a spare extractor or 2 in your kit is good too.

[Ford SD]

when you load your e-block load the last round so is on the right side

Alway Load a round from a eblock.... NEVER just slide a round into the chamber and let the Bolt slam forward

If buying Factory rounds look out for High velocity rounds as some can damage the oprod

and Check your recoil spring with a tape measure

M1 Garand recoil Spring

Proper length is 19 3/4 to 20 1/4" when new.

Cast loads can be equal to or be better than Ball loads accuracy wise

and can be a lot easier on the oprod / rifle as well as the shoulder

[DoctorBill]

.
I have made Muzzle Protectors for cleaning old rifles by finding a PLASTIC Screw
Top Bottle Cap that fits the Muzzle well, drilling or melting a hole in the exact
center and using that. It keeps the cleaning rod from rubbing the Muzzle
end. Costs nothing and lasts forever.......but - it is easy to lose ! Like my keys.

DoctorBill

PS - Ford-SD....I thought that that right or left side case in the Enbloc Problem
was solved long ago. It was due to machining away a nub in the receiver's left side
by the manufacturer - to make it easier to manufacture. Once corrected, the
M1 never jammed again. ? ? ? ?

I'm reloading 150 gr FMJ with 38 gr Reloader 15...a mild load. Hope it works the
Bolt Mechanism. Waiting for the Bureaucracy's TEN DAY rubbish is maddening.

[country gent]

Try a shotgun shell hull with the primer pushed out. 12 gauge just fits over the flash hiders on M1As.

[Ford SD]

.
I have made Muzzle Protectors for cleaning old rifles by finding a PLASTIC Screw
Top Bottle Cap that fits the Muzzle well, drilling or melting a hole in the exact
center and using that. It keeps the cleaning rod from rubbing the Muzzle
end. Costs nothing and lasts forever.......but - it is easy to lose ! Like my keys.

DoctorBill

PS - Ford-SD....I thought that that right or left side case in the Enbloc Problem
was solved long ago. It was due to machining away a nub in the receiver's left side
by the manufacturer - to make it easier to manufacture. Once corrected, the
M1 never jammed again. ? ? ? ?

I'm reloading 150 gr FMJ with 38 gr Reloader 15...a mild load. Hope it works the
Bolt Mechanism. Waiting for the Bureaucracy's TEN DAY rubbish is maddening.

Right side is better as your right thumb Presses down better when a case is on the right
Try it both ways and I think you will stay to the right


Yes the 12g empty shot gun shell works for M1a but not for M1 Garands

they do make a M1 Garand cleaning rod muzzle protector but not shure where I got mine

[Delkal]

I use a 22 hornet case with the primer pocket drilled out to fit the cleaning rod. The case fits perfectly in the muzzle and stops the cleaning rod from touching.

[Pirate69]

I rcvd the LEE 3 die Pacesetter Die Set. In the Instructions included with the Dies,
LEE gives tables of Loading Information. I have 2.5 lbs of RELOADER 15, and that powder
is listed for 150 gr FMJ bullets.....So - I gonna do that !

The load Start is 43.1 gr and the do not exceed Max load is 49 gr.

I decided to start with a reduced load of 38 grains to see how the
M1 Garand works and to be kind to it AND my old 81 yr old shoulder.

I thought I would have to use a filler. NOPE ! The 38 grns comes
right up to the beginning of the shoulder curve ! hardly any room
left to get to 49 grs ! The Brass cases are Headstamped "22".
Out of Romania, I have determined. 49 gr would be a compressed
load in these cases....

Your volumetric observations caught my attention. You indicated that a 38 grain load of RL-15 came up to the shoulder of the 308 case. A Speer 150 gain BT FMJ loaded to a COAL of 2.800 inches should consume approximately 83% of the available case capacity. A load of 45.6 grains RL-15 will consume 100% of the available case capacity. This is from QL data.

A 49 grain load of RL-15 is predicted to be approximately 107.5% of case capacity; yes, that would be compressed. It also predicts that the chamber pressure would be approximately 64,940 psi. This is in excess of the 62,000 psi SAAMI pressure.

I have seen information on 47-48 grain RL-15 being used in 30-06 M1 Garand reloads. You may want to recheck your load source.

I may be misreading your post but it may be worth rechecking.

[Ford SD]

I did use GRT using My OAl and info for my 308 using your 38 g charge of reloader 15

it might or might not function the action ( each rifle is different )

Its a place to start, and you can see what happens, I would not make a lot at that charge weight

If they do not function you can also use it like a spring assist straight pull

you then get to concentrate on the sights and take your time, and have fun

[Baltimoreed]

Don’t be this guy.

[DoctorBill]

This is a scan of the Loading Data in the LEE .308 WIN Die Instruction Set.

Just FYI. Click Thumbnail to enlarge.



I have Reloader 15 (Newest), 4320 and 4064 (Both ~ 15 yrs old)


Maybe a tad older than that......

DoctorBill

PS - Baltimoreed - - -
I did that in my first Drill Session in Army ROTC back in 1968 !
Most of us Raw 18 yr old Kids got the M1 Thumb. Me....just once.
Pain helps one to learn FAST !